Track bike advantages?

[juiced-r1]

Talking with some of the fellas yesterday, we were wondering what are the distinct advantages of a track-only bike. Specifically:

1. What is the usual weight saving of converting a bike with lightweight race glass, removing all switches, lights, etc?

2. Do slicks make you drop into corners faster/easier, or just provide greater lean grip and exit traction?

3. Does the lack of mirrors, brackets, fenders, etc make the bike noticeably more aerodynamic?

And also, if you think anything else might be of interest to us track newbies, please feel free to educate us. (As Dezerteagle says: "The bug has BITTEN!")

[kellz]

i know i want a tracky for the piece of mind that i know it isnt my daily commuter im risking incase i forget my ability mid corner....

[zRoYz]

i know i want a tracky for the piece of mind that i know it isnt my daily commuter im risking incase i forget my ability mid corner....

If you catch the track day bug the above reason is the main one, you start off with what you can afford & it doesn't have to be the lastest & greatest sports bike either. What ever you use for a track bike you will slowly improve it little buy little until you have reached the limits of said bike & fell the need to upgrade again.

Riding a motorbike is 90% rider so having a budget track bike frees your mind from the worry of droping your road bike which in most cases are worth more & don't like crashing with all there road gear.

Basic setup to start is good base bike wreck with road gear stuffed, fit race glass, crash knobs & good tyres & your away. Then you can start doing suspension, brakes, exhaust, motor mods as you improve to get more from the bike.

I use a 12 year old VFR750 of all things which is a sports tourer & share it 50/50 with a mate so all up we have spent 3K each not including tyres, oil, etc for a bike we can flog to death & she does have 110000kms on the clock. There are way better bikes for track use out there I just enjoy riding the slow old girl :ayyy:

[swabio]

here is all of my reasons summed up in one pic.... do you want this to happen to your road bike.....

[Poyda]

Yup thats the big one, i down sized from a ZX9R Barge roadie, to a ZX6R Intermediate Barge trackie and wiped quite a few seconds off my times. Was happy wearing my big balls on the track cos i knew if i dropped the trackie, it already looked like shit so didnt matter.

[Peregrine]

You're bound to come off one day - I'd rather come off on a track bike than my road bike.

For me, it's something to learn on. I'm learning how to ride with slicks and race shift, taking different lines and mucking around with braking etc. I'm not worried as much about coming off on a track bike so I'm not as scared to try and improve my riding.

I bought the little cbr400 for $3.3k including stands, tyre warmers. You don't have to spend much...

[dungbeetle]

yeh what evereyone above said. and ya dont mind bouncing the motor off the limiter, and throwing it on and off the trailer, and just generally not giving a fuk about it!!:D unless ya got a flame paint job of course!!
just makes the day less stressful i reckon, and if ya do what swabio did, then its not so bad. still sux tho!!!

[kellz]

yeh what evereyone above said. and ya dont mind bouncing the motor off the limiter, and throwing it on and off the trailer, and just generally not giving a fuk about it!!:D unless ya got a flame paint job of course!!
just makes the day less stressful i reckon, and if ya do what swabio did, then its not so bad. still sux tho!!!

lucky you added the last bit about the paint otherwise...:beatdeadhorse:

[triumph]

wish i had the money for a track bike plus leathers sure looks like fun :(

[swabio]

....just makes the day less stressful i reckon, and if ya do what swabio did, then its not so bad. still sux tho!!!

it sucks unless you get photo's of it, then it is kinda cool ;)

[juiced-r1]

OK. So here is my specific dilemma:

Do I

(A) get the airtech superbike fairing for my 98 R1 (about $610) and remove all the road gear (keeping the road stuff for later if I want to sell the bike)

OR

(B) sell my 98 and buy a dedicated track bike, possibly a 600.

I have read in several places that the original R1s and early 90s fireblades, in good nick, will be worth heaps in the coming years. But I don't really have the budget to have 2 bikes right now, plus a trailer and tow-car (wife drives a Barina, I ride the R1).

What to do, what to do?

[dungbeetle]

hmmm sell everything and buy my 600:D

[swabio]

seriously, unless you are a hell of a rider.... go the six hundred.... more than enough balls for the track, and the only place where the 1000's will do ya is on the straight ;)

get a 95 model bike.... that way you can race it in PCRA / ECRR and have a hell of a lot of fun on a budget! just think of the insurance & rego etc you will save it will fund your racing ;)

[kellz]

a trailer will be around 400 i reckon for a decent one.

[juiced-r1]

hmmm sell everything and buy my 600:D

I'd do it, but the problem is, people are selling shitty crashed and thrashed R1s for low, low prices these days. So I don't think the market is there for the price I'd want for my bike.

[kellz]

yeh but your bike is in mint condition from what i saw yesturday.


they would pay for it..

[zRoYz]

If you can only afford one bike but have the track day bug sell the 98 R1, unless your a really good rider or want to spend allot of money on suspension they don't call that model R1 the widow maker for nothing. They just don't have the frame package to handle the grunt they have & Yamaha didn't really get it right till 04, but the package they have now in my mind is best out of all the 1000cc sports bikes for handling. So if your thinking of fiting race glass to it & using to push at the track it may never get back to the road.

[Zee]

The one advantage I go by is, if you have a trackie, you don't need a roadie :D

[kellz]

no speeding fines, no danger of on coming cars, no power poles, and no speed limit :ayyy:

[juiced-r1]

After riding at the track twice (1 x EC, 1 x OP), I don't really want to ride on the road anymore, anyway.

[KW4K4]

As sore as I am right now from yesterdays excursion I am much happier to bin it on the track than on the road - a lot few things to hit in the runoff :P

Also cheaper to fix - looking at a clip on and a gear shifter only cause beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[Prettyboy]

Sell the R1 and buy a 600 Luke. That way when we come visit you in Melbourne most of us will be on 600s. More evenly matched:)

[juiced-r1]

I bought my 98 R1 trackie with both stands, race fairings & slicks for $5000 on ebay. Took it in & had it dyno'd & she's still putting out 149Hp:ayyy:
Its taken me around EC in 1:42 so you don't have to have the latest & greatest to kick arse!

Shit, that is fantastic! Want to sell it to me? :lmao:

[dungbeetle]

yeh but mono could do 1.42 on an old 400 i reckon!!!:O

[striker]

I have to disagree with the general consensus that it's all relatively inexpensive. Motorbikes, both track and road are a bottomless money pit. There is always something else you want or need and you never stop spending. The upside is being able to do things slowly over time and paying for bits and pieces as you can afford it.

[kellz]

yeh it is expensive..
but i am looking at it financially as a track day a month is about 120 a month, so thats $1440 a year for track days. tyres are about 450 a set will need 2-3 sets so that $900-$1350 a year, petrol 2 tanks if you chew through it thats 20 a day so $240 a year so far thats $ 3000 rounded up a year.

now i know that for me to register and insure a road bike its almost 3 grand a year plus id have tyres on top of that and then maintenance which would be equal to a tracky..

so from my perspective if i was to have one or the other id go track as i know i cant get a speeding fine, cant loose my licence, if i come off less chance of serious injury, not stressed about loosing my main form of transport etc...
yes motorcycling is expensive but depends on your personal priority and where your rather spend that minimum $3000 a year

[striker]

After riding at the track twice (1 x EC, 1 x OP), I don't really want to ride on the road anymore, anyway.

I have exactly the same problem. Anyone want to buy my ZX9R? Or better yet, anyone want to buy my ZX9R road bike and GSXR600 track bike as a package?

I'm planning on ultimately ending up with just a track bike. My road bike has only been ridden about 6 times in the last 12 months, and I just can't justify the ongoing registration, insurance etc for that kind of use.

[Bigdog]

Like the boys have said go for a 600 as a trackbike. They are way easier to ride fast than a litre bike. The 98 R1 is notorious for high siding ham fisted riders.
I'll try and answer some of your questions:
1). At a guess maybe 5-10 kg's.
2). They give you heaps more grip and confidence than road tyres. They allow you to go faster into corners and allow the use of more throttle coming out of them.
3). Slightly more aero dynamic.

[Kat00]

If you sell your road bike you will eventually miss riding on the road.
Best case scenario IMO is a litre bike for the road and whatever your comfortable on for a dedicated trackie.

[pan]

If you sell your road bike you will eventually miss riding on the road.
Best case scenario IMO is a litre bike for the road and whatever your comfortable on for a dedicated trackie.



Pffft, 1000cc is NOT enough for the road!


:p

[DAVID]

Keep the R1 :clap:

[striker]

If you sell your road bike you will eventually miss riding on the road

Definitely. I've been talking about selling my road bike for 12 months and haven't been able to bring myself to do it because I know the second I do I'll want it back. And I love those long rides like down to phillip Island for the moto gp.

It's all a money thing and I don't have enough of it. When I marry some wealthy girl who is willing to support me I'll have it sorted.

The garage will be home to a road registered sports bike, track bike, dirt bike, and cruiser (in addition to the boat, car and bike trailer of course).

[swabio]

Pffft, 1000cc is NOT enough for the road!


:p


pfft a 600 is more than enough for the road...... unless of course you need to compensate for a lack of something else..... ;) :D

[Peregrine]

pfft a 600 is more than enough for the road...... unless of course you need to compensate for a lack of something else..... ;) :D

lol you might have to stick to riding 125s since you keep on writing off all your 600s :P

[swabio]

lol you might have to stick to riding 125s since you keep on writing off all your 600s :P

lol nice one.... I'll see you on the track... scag!

you have six months to get your shit in one sock, then I will book into whatever group you have managed to put yourself in by then..... and we'll see what happens :D :ayyy: :2191:

[Peregrine]

Mate, I'd be honoured to have you as the guinea pig for our group...

[pan]

Bwahahahahahahaha ZING.... nice one!:ayyy: :violent5:
Seriously...why bat with a cocktail frankfurt, when you can bat with the Big Kabana....


Wow! It's like you're reading my mind! :eyecrazy:

Although swabio does make me think...

unless of course you need to compensate for a lack of something else..... :confused1:

...maybe he's been talking to my wife :confused1:

Nah, it's probably just a coincidence! :p

[jasonbw]

thought I'd try to contribute as I'm in the middle of working out with myself if I should get a dedicated track bike...

My road bike is a sweet ride, but its also my daily transport... but I loved the track too much to not keep going back... so heres a point form view of my thoughts today (tomorrow might be a different story :) but it might help someone?)

It seemed to boil down to one decision, am I going to do track days, or race schools... if race school only then the bike is fully insured... no stress. Track days - no insurance so I'd have to buy a trackie. Simple for me.

So for me, I like my road bike too much to want to use anything else so I'll do the RACE schools (gives you more track time for $80 more anyway)

But I'll write down all my thoughts anyway...

Pros of a Track bike

No stress about losing your transport if you bin it.
You can have fun on the relative cheap (few thou),not needing to spend big
You can have (and leave on) the right tyres for the job
Usually a cheap track bike means you can get spare rims easily for wets etc
Cons of a track bike

Cant insure it - at all
Were talking a few thousand dollars here, which can buy you...MANY track or training days or go fast bits
If going cheap then you'll have maintainence probs.. p.i.t.a if timing is bad.


Pros of using your Road bike

All the cash you save in not buying a track bike will give you loads of track time
All the good bits you buy for your roadie are put to proper use on the track
Get to learn even more about your road bikes handling
Can be fully insured if you do the schools only (big plus!)
You keep your road bike, I'd hate to sell my Road bike and miss it later.
No track fairings needed - doesnt make a difference to insurance cost!

Cons of using your Road bike

Need a spare set of rims to have an easy swap between track and road tyres
Restricted to schools like RACE school and CSS (no big deal really, just track choice is limited)
Have to still take more care of the bike than you do with a track bike. i.e. revving the crap out of it wears it more than usual, tie downs and stands, tyre changes, all have to be done with a bit more care.

Why would you say you don't want to ride on the road? If you've had a good few scares then track time (and training) will sort that out and you'll find yourself going slow on the road and fast on the track anyway.
Can you honestly say you wouldnt want a road bike for the long term? How will you feel when your mates all go for a ride and you've got only a track bike. If its an 'either/or' decision its worth thinking about that. (this is not related to the question on whether the road is safer or track safer because you didnt ask that, you wanted to know the advantages of a track only bike.)

No idea if this helped, but it made my struggle easier, thanks to everyone who posted here because it cleared my head over the past few days to use your opinions. Love this site!

JasonBW

[jasonbw]

OK, I shouldnt have written that... :) really its totally a personal choice. I've young kids and feel guilty that I'm being a little bit selfish in my choice of transport and Rec... but I've got awesome life insurance for em :)

[swabio]

Easy... 1 too many accidents resulting in not being able to walk & having young kids & a wife to think about......:hatter:
I do miss riding on the road, but I have put enough KMs under my belt on the plod infested roads to give that part of riding away for the time being!

At least at the track, the risk to personal injury is less than that of the road!

I used to love riding on the road....until I started doing some track days...then just found road riding too mundane and boring....couple that with the fact it cost me around $2200 a yr before I even turned the key (ins + rego for a 05 ZX6R)

now $2200 is a lot of track days.... then throw in slicks and some oil / filters etc, and you have running costs less than a road bike...

sure I don't get to ride as often, but I enjoy it a hell of a lot more! I would not want to restrict myself to ride / race schools only, as that means only EC....and the odd OP, what about WP ? I'd prefer to get a 12 year old bike, race it in NE2 and do track days on it :)

It is definitely a personal decision, but it certainly works for me :) Occasionally I miss the odd road ride with mates.... but that is all forgotten in the lead up to a track day.... ;)

I know that if I had have had a crash similar to what I had @ OP on the road....I'd be fucked.... now I have had a couple of road stacks... all of them low speed <6okm/h and I was lucky to walk away from them... with two written off bikes..... you always know what condition the road is in around the next corner on a track :D unlike the road.... there is nothing quite like coming around a hairpin and having the second half of it covered in diesel!

[jasonbw]

Swabio I understand your money point but I'm thinking differently about the money side of it, my choice is to run either a car or bike, I can't afford both... so the all in one suits my budget.

But I do fully appreciate Mono's and your points on the road not being a track. I've had... approx 15 accidents on the road.. 13 being young, stupd and invincible about 15 years ago. Every one my fault and no-one hurt but yes, I've been lucky (I was born in Dublin). But try as I might over those years I could never stop riding on the road for more than a year, always found my way back... but now that I've tried some track riding who knows, I might follow your path :) (I can only wish, considering your lap times)

Juiced you came to the right place, you'll be sure to find trains of thought here which youd relate to.

[Kat00]

pfft a 600 is more than enough for the road.

A 600 can`t be doing 60kph in 6th and roll on and piss off in the blink of an eye.

Come to think of it, neither can a ZX10 :lmao:

[swabio]

A 600 can`t be doing 60kph in 6th and roll on and piss off in the blink of an eye.

Come to think of it, neither can a ZX10 :lmao:


oooh no, you mean some effort.... the litre bike is for the lazy buggers ;)

hmmm dunno about the ZX10 comment.......the one I test rode recently....certainly was easy to conserve front tyre wear on ;)

[MATTK6]

my point, road bikes good, track bikes bloody awsome:lmao:

[jasonbw]

cmon Juiced, what did you end up deciding?

[dungbeetle]

well he hasnt rung me yet to buy mine:D

[jasonbw]

cmon Dungy be fair, its a Suzuki right?? Maybe if it was a Honda I'd be wondering... :)

[MATTK6]

cmon Dungy be fair, its a Suzuki right?? Maybe if it was a Honda I'd be wondering... :)

i'd be wondering to mate, id be wondering why the hell anyone would want one:lmao::lmao:

[juiced-r1]

Hey guys! I thought this thread would have died, but I am really glad that it hasn't. Thanks for all the constructive input.

There is a lot of info to digest and explain, so I'll keep it as short as I can. I have decided to keep using my R1 for the track, for a number of reasons.

1. A 600 would have a hard time carting my huge frame around a track anywhere near as fast as the R1 can. Although my bike has a tendency to run wide and does not corner anywhere near as well as, say an 06 R6, I am never going to be a world champion or anything, so my old bike will do.

2. Rego will run out in September. When it does, I have easy access to several utes and/or trailers. Essentially I will have a track bike with no extra outlay involved, other than buying some slicks. If I spend even $5,000 on a dedicated track bike, that is 31 EC track days with the RATS!

3. There are plenty of places in the US to buy cheap fairings. If I bin these ones, I can buy replacement road fairings or race glass for very little (aftermarket).

4. I am a lawyer, and I don't need the hassle of worrying about getting fined for speeding, etc. This could affect my employment in an adverse way. Not to mention the many civil suits I have seen against people who have made silly mistakes on the road, and it costs them their life savings. Not riding a litre sportbike on the road removes the temptation to speed, wheelie, carve corners, etc.

5. I have ridden several slower bikes on the road, and in all honesty, cruisers and streetfighters are IMHO far more rewarding to ride on road. My wife encourages me to get another bike when we have some extra money, so I will probably make that second bike a nice, tough cruiser that we can take on leisurely rides, or I can ride solo to get coffee with the boys. Although not a cruiser, I have had an absolute ball riding a mate's GS500 zuki on the road. I'd love a Trumpy Rocket III!

6. I don't need to impress anyone. Every time I ride the R1 on the street, some moron is trying to drag me in their WRX, SS Ute, 180sx, 200sx, etc. It is very annoying and again, I don't need the temptation.

There are more reasons, but those are the major ones.

[MATTK6]

if youre a lawyer mate, ya should be able to talk your way out of the speeding fines:lmao:

[juiced-r1]

True. But it's all on record, even if the police or court lets you off. Which makes very good ammo for other lawyers and can result in a revocation of your practicing certificate if it's deemed bad enough by the law society.

For example, people often get done for neg driving simply because they have crashed!

[MATTK6]

For example, people often get done for neg driving simply because they have crashed!

true, i've been hit by that one a couple of times:cursing:

[jasonbw]

Great stuff Juiced, really glad we somehow helped in making that decision... your summary was great to read through, kinda insired me into thinking my 1000RR should have the same fate :)

[dungbeetle]

yup you make some valid points there juiced. all ya need is slix, warmers and a couple stands and ya there. i have ridden a couple cruisers and they are nice to ride on the road, but i still dont think id buy one. well not for a few years anyway!!!
bear in mind that shipping will be super expensive or not possible on bodywork from the states, but ya can prolly get brand new race glass over here for $1000. and maybe save your plastics in case you ever do sell it. something else to think about....

[triumph]

ive been done for neg driving just because i have crashed .
costed me $380.00 plus 3 points

[Jordan]

the fine *cough* establishment of the nsw RTA decided that i was a danger to other road users with all my extreme (under 15km'h) speeding on public roads and rewarded me with the choice between 12 months with one point or three months with no license.

because i was moving from canberra to sydney and starting a new job i decided that i couldn't or wouldn't want to go without a license and try and do that so i decided that i wouldn't renew the rego on the bike til march next year. There was no way i could've come to the same decision if i still lived in canberra. I would've taken the three months. But with closer access to tracks i now have a track only k5 750 that i just bought race glass for. I was sorta in the market for a trackie anyway.

If i lose a single point for the twelve months i lose my license for six months so i will be buying a new roadie on march 10th next year.

I miss it heaps already and it hurts when people ask if i'm taking the bike and i have to explain that it aint registered. I also don't know what i am going to do for the annual pilgrimage to gp and sbk but i guess i will work something out. But it is soooooo much easier to stick to the limit in a '92 Triton ;)

[Jordan]

Previously after a big stack at wp i gave up track riding til i could afford a trackie or had a ute or car capable of towing a race glassed gsxr. That lasted a whole year... (only coz i was a poor uni student distracted by his thesis) the money i have spent fixing my roadies from one track crash woulda paid for a cheap trackie... or three sets of glass.

[MATTK6]

dungys selling a good tracky:ayyy:

[kellz]

and its just been sprayed and comes with heaps of extras... and its even a zook... :D

[Turtle]

dungys selling a good tracky:ayyy:

How much does Dungy want for that BEAUTIFUL piece of Artwork ??????????????????????

[MATTK6]

i think he wanted 10k for it before, but then i might be wrong, ya lookin at getting a tracky to now turtle?

[Turtle]

i think he wanted 10k for it before, but then i might be wrong, ya lookin at getting a tracky to now turtle?

I guess i'll see how things pan out....I hate the thought of taking a brand new litre bike out to do a Trackday........a cheap tracky is prob. the way to go.....do you have a trackbike or do you use ya roady ???

[Zee]

What happened to the blade??? Buy it back!

[MATTK6]

mate i transformed it into a pure tracky cause i lost my liscence on it, so i only have the dedicated track bike.
not the cheapest trackbike at 18 and a half k, but hey, them's the breaks

[jasonbw]

Just yesterday I bought raceglass for the CBR RR.. I figured if I slide on a track the damage *might* not require paying the excess and taking extra premium increases.

Got Fork, Axle and frame sliders on it too just in case they help.

Its my daily commuter though, so theres still that fear.

[dungbeetle]

How much does Dungy want for that BEAUTIFUL piece of Artwork ??????????????????????

i got 9800 on ebay at the moment. for anyone on here id sell it for 9k. its in the for sale section....:D

http://www.nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1235

[juiced-r1]

I am stripping the bike down to track spec this morning after being nudged by a cager doing a "no-look" lane change yesterday arvo. :(

Bike is 100% fine, the idiot hit me right on my knee slider , I wobbled and swerved, then regained control. Fuck riding on the road. I'm so over it. :cursing:

So, should I take the wiring out, or leave it in just in case I want to sell it one day?

[MATTK6]

i reckon ya leave the wiring in mate, cause it weighs bugger all and isnt going to help a great deal with power, and if ya do decide to sell it it will make it alot easier, just my thoughts anyway:ayyy:

[Bigdog]

I agree with Matt K6. I've left my wiring in place too.

[MadHatter]

If you can only afford one bike but have the track day bug sell the 98 R1, unless your a really good rider or want to spend allot of money on suspension they don't call that model R1 the widow maker for nothing. They just don't have the frame package to handle the grunt they have & Yamaha didn't really get it right till 04, but the package they have now in my mind is best out of all the 1000cc sports bikes for handling. So if your thinking of fiting race glass to it & using to push at the track it may never get back to the road.

Maybe so.. but that doesn't mean you still can't go faster than everyone else on one.
For instance, mono bought some old washed up 98 r1 and immediately does 1.42's without any suspension work at all!

[MATTK6]

Maybe so.. but that doesn't mean you still can't go faster than everyone else on one.
For instance, mono bought some old washed up 98 r1 and immediately does 1.42's without any suspension work at all!

but keeping in mind mono is a freak when it comes to pulling quick lap times:lmao:

[Prettyboy]

Changed your mind again yet Luke...

Videos of juiceds Saturday escapades to follow shortly

[juiced-r1]

"I verk in beck, I see no wideos."