Tyre Pressures For Trackdays ????

[Turtle]

So what are the opinions of some of you guys ????? What pressures do you use on the track........it seems everyone knows something different ?? I'm talking road tyres mainly, and feel free to post up pressures for Slicks as well. Also put down ya tyre size (190/55)


Feedback from others is important i reckon.

TURTLE.........:ayyy:

[MATTK6]

alot of it actually depends on the day for me mate, if it's a hot day, i put abit more air in, and a little less for cold days, i think alot of it depends on the feel your getting from them, and the feel ya wanna get from them:ayyy:
my opinions anyway:ayyy:

[MATTK6]

oh yeah, i run the bridgy slicks, 120/55 and 190/55
generaly start off with about 28psi

[trumpst]

I was on the FZR (with smiley face?)- unsure of tyre sizes, but I ran 30 front and back- checked tyres a bit during day- mostly up by 4 straight after a session (my son john and I shared bike- C and D). Seemed to work for us.

[Turtle]

alot of it actually depends on the day for me mate, if it's a hot day, i put abit more air in, and a little less for cold days, i think alot of it depends on the feel your getting from them, and the feel ya wanna get from them:ayyy:
my opinions anyway:ayyy:

I thought you'd put a bit less in on a Hot Day ?? Due to the extra expansion from the heat ??:confused1:

[jasonbw]

As theory goes Mattk6 is spot on, more psi on a hotter day whereas less psi in your tyre gets the tyre hot from a bigger contact patch plus it then moving around, add psi and you have the correct sized contact patch = less heat inside the tyre.

The CircuitBreakers school had a visit from Craig White... who posted here in the Tyres for Sale, his teachings were very simply (see my race school write up)
If its a race tyre then it has a harder carcass, so you run lower pressures, if its a road tyre it has a soft carcass and you need higher pressures or you'll collapse the sidewall.

Details in the sticky schools report.

[MATTK6]

yeah, it's a pretty simple formula, hot day low pressure= more tyre movement
higher tyre pressure= less movement, and when pushing i want like my tyres to have as little movement as possible:ayyy:

[Turtle]

Ahhh...that makes sense ..........what pressures on the track for road tyres ?????

[MATTK6]

even on the road and track for road tyres, i use to run 28-20psi front and rear, and it worked well for me on the powers, but i think there will be other people on here that run different pressures, due to make of tyre, what compound, size, and what they like to feel from them:ayyy:

[Turtle]

even on the road and track for road tyres, i use to run 28-20psi front and rear, and it worked well for me on the powers, but i think there will be other people on here that run different pressures, due to make of tyre, what compound, size, and what they like to feel from them:ayyy:

28-20 ??? do you mean 28-30 ??

[MATTK6]

yeah, sorry about that:lmao:

[Zippa]

Found at the Superbike School a few years ago they went out &adjusted all road going tyres to 30psi front & rear.

Not surw what the did about bikes with slicks. Personally I run Bridgestone slicks on the 400 with a 120 front, 165 rear. Pressures at ora npark were 28 for the front & 29 for the rear.

Road riding on the blade I leave mine at about 32 front & 34 rear for Michelen Pilot Powers, 120 front & 180 rear...... seems to work ok :ayyy:

[jasonbw]

wow, not far off what I run, with PP i run them 30/26 normally, in summer on a hot day I have them around 32/29. As an experiment I'll try dropping the rear down the 20, I'm sure it'll feel terrible till its all warmed up as the steering on the CBR is slow enough already. (wish PP2ct190x55 came out here)

edit: now I've found it was a typo by Matt I wont be trying 20psi ... phew
edit2: I better point out my figures are front then back... i.e. 30/26 is 20 front, 26 rear.

[MATTK6]

go on jason, try the 20psi:lmao:
12psi good on the rear for me (at the drags):lmao:

[jasonbw]

I was hoping the GSXR must've had really quick steering that 20psi would have it run still okay... but truth be told theres a few on the 1000RR forum SWEAR by running their "tires" on the street at 26/22 (piliot Powers).... some of these guys are quick enough to make you want to at least try it once to feel it... but hmmm, 20psi is low... glad I dont have to try it now. Phew

Edit: Gday Zippa, yep, superbike school still do that... all tyres get 30/30. Hey those Twist of the Wrist DVDs I gave you werent properly done, I screwed up somewhere and it only plays till the Steering section about 1/2 way through. Will re-author and catch up someday to give you a working one.

[Turtle]

wow, not far off what I run, with PP i run them 30/26 normally, in summer on a hot day I have them around 32/29. As an experiment I'll try dropping the rear down the 20, I'm sure it'll feel terrible till its all warmed up as the steering on the CBR is slow enough already. (wish PP2ct190x55 came out here)

edit: now I've found it was a typo by Matt I wont be trying 20psi ... phew
edit2: I better point out my figures are front then back... i.e. 30/26 is 20 front, 26 rear.

Did you mean 30/26 ??? EDIT...EDIT....EDIT

[jasonbw]

Yep... 30 front, 26 rear.

[Turtle]

Yep... 30 front, 26 rear.

Does the riders weight have any variations on the pressures ??

[MATTK6]

see, the typo's easy to do now isnt it jason:lmao:

[MATTK6]

i believe it does, but the weight has ALOT more to do with the suspension set up then the tyres

[jasonbw]

see, the typo's easy to do now isnt it jason:lmao:

HEY..:) I didnt make a typo!! well, not in this thread anyway.. did I ??? When I said Yep, 30 Front 26 rear I was saying its not a typo.

re: weight, I'm a fat bastard hovering on 99kg... it works for me, maybe not for you .

[MATTK6]

if youre a fat bastard, i must be just a bastard, dunno how but still managing to stay under the 90kg:lmao:

[jasonbw]

I wish I got back there, was happy with 84kg then ripped my ACL from the knee, had the knee reconstruction and just slowly gained weight :( man I just HAVE to get back into that Tae-Bo, that fittened me up really well before.

[MATTK6]

meh, muscle weighs more then fat mate:lmao:

[jasonbw]

OK, I wont call it a beer gut anymore, just a muscle gut.

Anyway, back to the program, I found a load more good posts using the search or just wading back through the Tech forum here. Turtle did it help? or are you now more confused :)

Could I suggest you watch the suspension setup videos that were posted for download today, so you learn to recognise the different wear patterns. There seems to be one fundamental about tyre pressures that most agree on, there should be between 5-7psi gain when going from cold to hot (taken STRAIGHT after pulling in from your session)... take a good pressure gauge with you and armed with that tyre wear info you will know if your getting cold tearing or hot tearing... the gain will confirm that for you too... the suspension info will help with the fine setup so you get the most out of your tyres.... sounds easy in theory hey :)

[Turtle]

OK, I wont call it a beer gut anymore, just a muscle gut.

Anyway, back to the program, I found a load more good posts using the search or just wading back through the Tech forum here. Turtle did it help? or are you now more confused :)

Could I suggest you watch the suspension setup videos that were posted for download today, so you learn to recognise the different wear patterns. There seems to be one fundamental about tyre pressures that most agree on, there should be between 5-7psi gain when going from cold to hot (taken STRAIGHT after pulling in from your session)... take a good pressure gauge with you and armed with that tyre wear info you will know if your getting cold tearing or hot tearing... the gain will confirm that for you too... the suspension info will help with the fine setup so you get the most out of your tyres.... sounds easy in theory hey :)

I've got my suspension pretty well sorted........i might have a look at that tyre wear info though .......it may be hard to tell 'cause we rip the shit out of our soft tyres up the OldRoad......

[Turtle]

I usually run about 33 front and 38 rear ...on the road ???
Too much ????

[MadHatter]

Also depends on the tyre itself, especially for road tyres.
Pilot powers are the only road tyre i've used on the race track, and 29 - 30 is the go for an average winters day at EC (20-25 degrees)

[MadHatter]

Oh, matt already said that :)

[MATTK6]

I've got my suspension pretty well sorted........i might have a look at that tyre wear info though .......it may be hard to tell 'cause we rip the shit out of our soft tyres up the OldRoad......

i think that might be classed as cold tear on the tyres, from the whole tyre not heating up evenly

[jasonbw]

5-7 psi gain mate, could I suggest popping those pressure to what CSS run (30/30) or MattK6/MadHatters 29/30 and make sure you check the PSI gain straight after you pull in. 5-6 psi is what you want. Chat to Craig White, he'll be there, white van with Whites power or something written on the side.

Still wondering why everyones running a higher PSI on the rear than on the front, I've always had lower in the rear than the front... maybe cause I was born in Ireland.

[MadHatter]

I run lower on the rear..

[MATTK6]

i normally try to run the same in both

[MadHatter]

Generally the same here matt but if it's going to be lower in one it's always the rear.

[MATTK6]

yeah, i reckon the front pressure is prob the most important out of the 2

[jasonbw]

So, Exam time... what tyre pressure do you recommend this guy (http://members.iinet.com.au/~jasonbw/photos/bikes/Misc/hey%20hey%20hey.jpg) needs to run...

[MadHatter]

32psi front, 873psi rear.

[Turtle]

So, Exam time... what tyre pressure do you recommend this guy (http://members.iinet.com.au/~jasonbw/photos/bikes/Misc/hey%20hey%20hey.jpg) needs to run...

I'd say he'd have to use a 747 tyre Nitrogen filled ...........

[MATTK6]

at least he'd have no troubles doing a wheelstand:lmao:

[Zee]

alot of it actually depends on the day for me mate, if it's a hot day, i put abit more air in, and a little less for cold days, i think alot of it depends on the feel your getting from them, and the feel ya wanna get from them:ayyy:
my opinions anyway:ayyy:

I used to be a believer in this theory.
But after the last trackday, I found a different approach.
One that will contradict all articles and raise heated debate.
I'll keep it to myself than. :D

[Bigdog]

With my Pirelli slicks I run 30 front, 29 rear, the same with Bridgestone slicks. With Pilot Powers on the road I ran 35/35.

[jasonbw]

Share the love Zee, no-one here would bag an opinion on tyres... I always like to try what others feel is right to help me learn more... pleeeeease

[Zee]

I could tell ya, but than I would have to kill ya.

[jasonbw]

you can be my wingman anytime....

[Zee]

Bullshit...you can be mine

[jasonbw]

:) cmon now, were all on the same team, give us the goss.. at least in a PM.

[Zee]

Okay...Fuk! Here goes
Now, this came from an IR member, who will remain nameless at this stage (he can put his hand up for it if he chooses to).

My last trackday at OP, earlier in April, was my first day on the circuit testing my newly installed Ohlins rear shock and totally set up suspension's front and rear end. I'll also mention the front spring were also replaced earlier, so was the fluid but the right spring sag and geometry wasn't dialed in until the rear shock was fitted.

It was a mild day weather wise at OP that day, I think around 22C running new Dunlop qualifiers.
As session by session passed the bike got skatier and skatier. Not knowing what to do or how to read the tyres, I just persisted until a friend started asking questions. "What are your hot tyre pressures and what did you initially set them to?" My reply, "30-31psi". Friend, "what are they now, hot." Me,"36-37psi." Friend, "aim for a 4-6psi variation. "Me, Okay."

His reasoning behind the recommendation goes like this:
All tyres run hotter than the track temperature. Tyres operate at anything from 70C to 90C. Road temp is always cooler, even on the hottest day. So effectively the road surface cools the tyre.
By lowering tyre pressure produces a larger contact patch, right. So, therefore the more tyre contacting the road the more it disperses it's heat back to the road surface thus reducing the overall temperature of the complete tyre and consequently not increasing air pressure greatly.
By starting only a couple of pounds higher for the same conditions of the day will yield the direct opposite result. Meaning, less contact patch and poor dispersing of the heat back to the road. Less physical contact equals less grip, physcologically as well. Sky rocketing air pressure resulting in even greater heat spot on the tyre, a smaller contact patch to transfer the even greater heat now and less tyre contact which directly lessens grip. You get the picture, it just keeps spiralling down a steep slop.

It's the direct oposite of every article I've read (not many) but I've heard the same theories as previously stated in this thread and no wonder I've always had crappy tyre wear. Ohh, I gess crappy set up suspension wouldn't help too.

I dropped the pressures down to 28-28psi (wandering into slicks pressure territory, remember they're road tyres) and the bike felt much solid and gripy. Upon arrival back to the garage, the tyres looked much much better and the pressures went up to 34-34psi. Still a little high for his liking but he said you're in the range or very close to good consistent tyre wear. It also felt way better. :)

So, I have to thank friend for the tip...it worked a treat. :ayyy:

[Turtle]

Okay...Fuk! Here goes
Now, this came from an IR member, who will remain nameless at this stage (he can put his hand up for it if he chooses to).

My last trackday at OP, earlier in May, was my first day on the circuit testing my newly installed Ohlins rear shock and totally set up suspension's front and rear end. I'll also mention the front spring were also replaced earlier, so was the fluid but the right spring sag and geometry wasn't dialed in until the rear shock was fitted.

It was a mild day weather wise at OP that day, I think around 22C running new Dunlop qualifiers.
As session by session passed the bike got skatier and skatier. Not knowing what to do or how to read the tyres, I just persisted until a friend started asking questions. "What are your hot tyre pressures and what did you initially set them to?" My reply, "30-31psi". Friend, "what are they now, hot." Me,"36-37psi." Friend, "aim for a 4-6psi variation. "Me, Okay."

His reasoning behind the recommendation goes like this:
All tyres run hotter than the track temperature. Tyres operate at anything from 70C to 90C. Road temp is always cooler, even on the hottest day. So effectively the road surface cools the tyre.
By lowering tyre pressure produces a larger contact patch, right. So, therefore the more tyre contacting the road the more it disperses it's heat back to the road surface thus reducing the overall temperature of the complete tyre and consequently not increasing air pressure greatly.
By starting only a couple of pounds higher for the same conditions of the day will yield the direct opposite result. Meaning, less contact patch and poor dispersing of the heat back to the road. Less physical contact equals less grip, physcologically as well. Sky rocketing air pressure resulting in even greater heat spot on the tyre, a smaller contact patch to transfer the even greater heat now and less tyre contact which directly lessens grip. You get the picture, it just keeps spiralling down a steep slop.

It's the direct oposite of every article I've read (not many) but I've heard the same theories as previously stated in this thread and no wonder I've always had crappy tyre wear. Ohh, I gess crappy set up suspension wouldn't help too.

I dropped the pressures down to 28-28psi (wandering into slicks pressure territory, remember they're road tyres) and the bike felt much solid and gripy. Upon arrival back to the garage, the tyres looked much much better and the pressures went up to 34-34psi. Still a little high for his liking but he said you're in the range or very close to good consistent tyre wear. It also felt way better. :)

So, I have to thank friend for the tip...it worked a treat. :ayyy:

Yeah Zee thats sounds pretty good.........too little tyre pressure causes the tyre to move or elongate on the rim, which is bad.....you need the tyre to keep its shape or profile its meant to have......

[Zee]

See what I mean now, Jasonbw.
Hey Turtle, you do what's right for you...after all, you did ask the question.

[Turtle]

See what I mean now, Jasonbw.
Hey Turtle, you do what's right for you...after all, you did ask the question.

Just givin' yous the info we found out yesterday......from a pretty good source

[jasonbw]

Thanks for sharing Zee, I would put money on it that a heap will read this and find it useful! Methinks in relation to this there two types of people... one who take advice from a source and believe it...or the other who take advice and try it, to see if its right for them. Surely most here are the 2nd category so I'm stoked you've given up some good detailed info to think about! Thanks! Ironic that it still comes back to that 5-7 (or 4-6 psi) gain being best.

[Zee]

Yeah, that's the only similarity.

[Turtle]

Thanks for sharing Zee, I would put money on it that a heap will read this and find it useful! Methinks in relation to this there two types of people... one who take advice from a source and believe it...or the other who take advice and try it, to see if its right for them. Surely most here are the 2nd category so I'm stoked you've given up some good detailed info to think about! Thanks! Ironic that it still comes back to that 5-7 (or 4-6 psi) gain being best.

Yeah i agree its all trial and error........but getting feedback from different sources is better than going it yourself, especially when you dont have a clue of what your getting yourself into !!!!! Thanx for the Feedback..........

[jasonbw]

ok, want a laugh...??

Shopping today at Westfield I ran into a mate who runs a bike shop in Wollongong, he talked to me about tyres (no, I didnt ask him cause its his day off, he bought it up), he knows my two Pilot Powers are shagged after 2000ks road use and one ride day, I still used it for that last race school but it was horrid) anyway... the Michelin rep told him to tell me I should be running... wait for it...

Pilot Powers on the road...

Fourty Two on the Rear !!!! Ahhh ggawd....

The worst part is the Michelin rep works in Gardners shop and if anyone knows how to use Pilot Powers on the road and track it him... :( I'm lost... totally.. I'll stick to a safe 33/34 now.

[Turtle]

ok, want a laugh...??

Shopping today at Westfield I ran into a mate who runs a bike shop in Wollongong, he talked to me about tyres (no, I didnt ask him cause its his day off, he bought it up), he knows my two Pilot Powers are shagged after 2000ks road use and one ride day, I still used it for that last race school but it was horrid) anyway... the Michelin rep told him to tell me I should be running... wait for it...

Pilot Powers on the road...

Fourty Two on the Rear !!!! Ahhh ggawd....

The worst part is the Michelin rep works in Gardners shop and if anyone knows how to use Pilot Powers on the road and track it him... :( I'm lost... totally.. I'll stick to a safe 33/34 now.

HaHaHa................What about this, I was told to Use 37psi in the front......!!!!!!! Hmmm i'll probably go with the 34/36........

[Zee]

That Michelin rep was my ex-boss.
Had the Suzuki/Aprilia Franchise in Fairy Meadow before he off loaded it to TJ's.
It's safe to say he knows the standard road settings.

[jasonbw]

Pops ??

[Zee]

Yep!

[jasonbw]

I'm going to buy a new set next week and run what he says. Worth trying coming from him. Really strange, but I will.

[Zee]

I ran my road bike close to or on manufactures recommendations (36-42psi) but as for the track, that's a hole different ball game.

[jasonbw]

Thats fine Zee, Im only talking Road pressures here... some of the Mt Keira runs I ended up dropping the PSI prior since even with the low speed we were running hard on the tyres, they got very hot, but normal road use I'll try going way up high to 42/36 which is what I've already set (love having an air comp at home)

[Wiccad]

I'll throw another spanner in the works, I haven't had the current bike on the track yet. But the previous mount, a KY GSXR750 was run solely on Pilot Powers. Road riding was and still is 42 rear, 38 front. The bike had bucket loads of grip, tipped in like a drunk 5yo and was STABLE mid corner(I ride with BA most weekends + commuting if that gives any indication to how I ride). For the track yeah I'd drop the pressures, 38 rear and 32 front for OP running in the pointy end of B1 during summer. 35 rear 32 front during winter, still at the pointy end of B1 but with the bar heaters on(ok I'm soft but numb hands = crashing). As for distance, I got over 15k out of a set of pilots on the 750, and the 600 K2 I currently ride is looking to match this, current set are 10k old and plenty left on them. Tyre wear is more about a balance of settings and rider wrist control that the tyre itself most of the time.