MOTO GP 23/5/10 9:30 pm **SPOILER**

[sbutler]

Heads up fellas
One HD has MOTO GP on tonight at 10.30pm...

[Kris]

According to the guide its 9.30?

[Marshy]

It's on One at 9:30, and on Channel 10 at 10:30. But don't miss the Moto2 race at 8pm on One.

[OutOfControl]

....and the 125cc at 6:45pm on OneHD.

[WET4URacing]

Moto 2 is the main game. and not for cappy to watch . they ride too close together for his liking . but for the rest of us moto 2 bring it on

[Falco]

Keep'in it real.....Go Casey!!!!

[Kat00]

Go the poof.

[Captain]

Whatever ...

[ottospunkmeister]

Moto 2 is the main game. and not for cappy to watch . they ride too close together for his liking . but for the rest of us moto 2 bring it on

Don't give him a hard time, he's had to concentrate really hard all day today :lmao: +1 on the Moto2:ayyy:

[Cedric]

125's started..

[Devilish]

love the 125's...

[Mr.Ed]

Brilliant race

[*Oggy*]

A Harris on pole for Moro2... come- on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trumpst]

How's the luck- getting T boned by a riderless bike (Moto 2)!!

[Mr.Ed]

Wow... how about that bike cleaning de Angelis out?!:eyecrazy:

[_chado77]

pretty bloody unlucky.. he'll be you tube faamous soon though:rolleyes:

[Mr.Ed]

Simon sliding that bike around... :cool::cool:

[Foghorn]

Moto2 + action a plenty = awesome

[MOTOBIKES ACCESSORIES]

Awesome slides by Simon

[laidback]

I'm as good as about half that Moto2 field...my lowside was just about as good...hehehe

[nutsa]

12 crashers! haha crazy moto 2 race and yeah brilliant sliding by simon

[_chado77]

stoner fastest in the AM warm up..

will be hardd to beat lorenzo and stoner

NH still doing great and on pace

[Cedric]

Capirossi simply cannot lose with those sideburns.

[_chado77]

haha..channelin elvis... definitely areodynamic advantage

[nutsa]

Capirossi simply cannot lose with those sideburns.

if it came down too sideburns Guy Martin would be winning everything! haha

http://www.hein-gericke.co.uk/1/images/news/meet_guy_martin.jpg

And maby i need too stop putting money on stoner, i could be cursing him this year!

[_chado77]

stoner:eyecrazy:

[Irena]

Keep'in it real.....Go Casey!!!!





:eyecrazy: ................ummm, where ???

[Mr.Ed]

Pedrosa, you idiot! Go HAYDEN!!!!!!! :D

[Cedric]

Good race, I enjoyed it... nice battle between the Repsols..

[stetto]

Not that stoner will admit it but it looks like his left foot came off the peg, i assume that would put all his weight on his inside foot and make the rear break traction? Top win by lorenzo 68 degrees of lean i saw at 1 point, fark me

[hoffy]

Stoner havin a bad run...will have to stop tipping him, he's certainly havin a rough patch.

[Foghorn]

Fast becoming - "The Year that Wasn't" for Stoner

Lap 21 through the chicanes said a lot about the mindsets between Vale & Whoregay - although Whoregay is having the last laugh presently.

[Captain]

I'd imagine Stoner's barganing power for next years' ride has just taken a dive. I hope he already made a deal before yesterday's race.
Lorenzo is certainly on fire, top ride.

[Naked Twin]

I think Stoners head has been done in. Mentally he is in trouble, the pressure is getting to him and unless he accepts you can't win every race or at least race to be there at the end of then Ducati better starting making plenty of spares.

You could Pedrosa in the same boat, except he isn't crashing. Put him under pressure and he cracks.

Nick

[BIGJAY]

when he won in 07 there really wasn't much competition. Now that most of the big guns are firing we are seeing how good stoner really is. He cant be that good if Hayden is keeping pace with him, and beating him. I'm a stoner fan and it frustrating to see him hand other riders championships. Ducatti have some work to do...................

[The Outsider]

dont worry stoner fans, obviously he is crashing in preperation for his honda ride.
back to the good old days :lmao:

[oz r1]

Good to see ten have seen the light and gone with the real commentary team , a much more knowledgeable team than the one hd twats.

[ottospunkmeister]

:popcorn:

[WET4URacing]

Good to see ten have seen the light and gone with the real commentary team , a much more knowledgeable team than the one hd twats.

they went forward 2 steps and back 1. sports tonite between moto2 and GP what the fuk are they thinkin. its gettin worse. and commercials mid race

[Captain]

and commercials mid race
It's commercial TV, that's the way a business works.
"it's on free-to-air now .... hooray"
"moto2 is giving us close racing .... hooray"
Some people can't see past their own noses.

[WET4URacing]

It's commercial TV, that's the way a business works.
"it's on free-to-air now .... hooray"
"moto2 is giving us close racing .... hooray"
Some people can't see past their own noses.


we havnt moved forward by going to FTA . i'm looking at my watch and its going forward but the TV is not. back to fox i say. its only $13 a week , if you cant afford $13 a week get out and do a paper run

[ottospunkmeister]

It's commercial TV, that's the way a business works.
"it's on free-to-air now .... hooray"
"moto2 is giving us close racing .... hooray"
Some people can't see past their own noses.

+1 Its the way that business works
me not likee free-to-air
me likee moto2
Confucius say man who cannot see wood for trees cannot find waste oil disposal bin outside pits at racetrack:lmao:

[WET4URacing]

of course its the way biz works. we arent that dumb.

moto2 wood have bin on if it still was with FOX , i cant see the leaves or the trees with wat you are typing

[ottospunkmeister]

of course its the way biz works. we arent that dumb.

moto2 wood have bin on if it still was with FOX , i cant see the leaves or the trees with wat you are typing

private joke just stirring airline pilots and certain ranked naval officers

[WET4URacing]

roger that

[The Outsider]

of course once again the crash isnt stoners fault.
whos fault is it then? :thinking:
funny hayden managed to ride through the same corners AND kept it up! :lmao:

really thought he was over all the moaning but its because our coverage barely shows him talking.
downloaded the bbc version (with proper shite commentary) and they inervewed stoner and there he is moaning again, boo hoo dont know whats wrong or why my bike keeps falling over :lmao:

[Captain]

of course once again the crash isnt stoners fault.
whos fault is it then? :thinking:
Ducati is doing a mea culpa, not sure why, best not to look too deply. It's un-australian to be critical of Rolling Stoner ...


of course its the way biz works. we arent that dumb. Ahem ... what's this 'we'? :lmao:

[WET4URacing]

"we" as in bizness people. not you cappy.

[Captain]

Just stirring mate. You're right though, I best leave it to business people, I don't understand all that stuff.

[Mr.Ed]

I don't accept the 'it's free to air - they'll have commercial breaks' argument. Sorry. I've lived in other countries where I could watch races and there was no commercial breaks on free to air TV... just a brief logo would pop up on the corner of the screen or they'd have a sort of 'picture in picture' display but you'd never lose the action.
It's racing for Christ sake!! One split second and everything changes. You can't treat it like Cricket (**snores**) and expect the audience to be ok with it.

[Naked Twin]

You have to wonder what Ducati are thinking when you hear they are making stronger clip ons, triple clamps etc so that if a bike does drop there is a chance the rider can continue, I mean WTF! Maybe the bike is a piece of shit and Ducati are now building in redundancy measures to cover this.

Nick

[SIX36]

You have to wonder what Ducati are thinking when you hear they are making stronger clip ons, triple clamps etc so that if a bike does drop there is a chance the rider can continue, I mean WTF! Maybe the bike is a piece of shit and Ducati are now building in redundancy measures to cover this.

Nick

Not really, not different to you wanting engine cases?
All Stoners crashes have been slowish lowsides in both crashes being so early in the race if he were able to pick up and continue to gain some points if any is better than watching with your head in your hands over a $100 clip on or shift leaver...

This is not Ducati based as would be assumed but i'd say Honda or anyone else would do the same.

[Captain]

This is an editorial from a leading Italian motorcycle website; it's a very quick translation, apologies for any inaccuracies (the odd word perhaps) - but you should get the jist of it.

"Stoner crashes again, placing him down low in the championship ladder and is at a very low point in his motoGP career. When he was aksed what was wrong, his reply of "I have no idea" says a lot about his state of mind ... confused. We're talking about an ex-champion sorrounded by all the knowledge and investment - economic too, not about a beginner. What gives?
His delicate and complex psychological state have let him down again; he is a victim of his own unstable character, one which can make him a champion or can destroy him, often according to what others say and do. In this case, the problem has been Ducati ... by criticising him and by negotiating with Rossi (Stoners' rival) as well as with Lorenzo. What have Ducati done to nurture Stoner, knowing how sentitive he is? Now Ducati are reaping what they have sowed. Stoner will leave them, and Rossi will not come over, and Ducati will be left with nothing."

Curious analysis. Curious and interesting, as they say things that we never would (right or wrong). Originally I thought it was simply the Italians getting stuck into Stoner and making him a scapegoat, but they are just as critical of Ducati.

[Foghorn]

Capitano Pensi che il tuo amico che ha un amore di verde tutto avrà una risposta al tuo post?

[Captain]

:lmao:

[McNuffin]

Capitano Pensi che il tuo amico che ha un amore di verde tutto avrà una risposta al tuo post?

Fog mate - throwing out a few diff languages in the past week.. giddyup!

[Foghorn]

Fog mate - throwing out a few diff languages in the past week.. giddyup!

hey is got a laugh out of Cappy...............guess it proves that I'm a cunninlynguist

[Cedric]

hey is got a laugh out of Cappy...............guess it proves that I'm a cunninlynguist

http://www.sneeko.net/images/macros2/fgsfds.jpg

[Naked Twin]

Not really, not different to you wanting engine cases?
All Stoners crashes have been slowish lowsides in both crashes being so early in the race if he were able to pick up and continue to gain some points if any is better than watching with your head in your hands over a $100 clip on or shift leaver...

This is not Ducati based as would be assumed but i'd say Honda or anyone else would do the same.

But this is Ducati answer to fixing a possible problem? Or that they believe Stoner will be crashing more this year then previously? I just thought it was a strange thing to come out of the Ducati camp.

Nick

[Captain]

What's this thingamagig under the seat?

http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/motogp-2010-le-mans-2a-parte/big_rossi_lorenzo_01_01.jpg

What could possibly be written on Rossi's board?
http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/motogp-2010-le-mans-2a-parte/big_1rossi_lorenzo_16_01.jpg

Malboro running out of ideas
http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/motogp-2010-le-mans-2a-parte/big_stoner_hayden_11_01.jpg

[Birdman45]

What could possibly be written on Rossi's board?

http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/motogp-2010-le-mans-2a-parte/big_1rossi_lorenzo_16_01.jpg


"You've got nothing"

LOL

[Birdman45]

On a more serious side, I remember posting a while back something CE said about another rider, that he was fast but not "Lorenzo fast"....... which I took as meaning, whatever we see from week to week, the riders know who is good and who isn't regardless of where they finish, and if Lorenzo is stupidly fast, then although he isn't winning everything (yet) he is obviously good on his day. Then Beattie said the same thing the other night, along the lines of "Lorenzo is a faster rider than Rossi period.... Rossi has the experience and race craft but he was never as fast a rider as Lorenzo is".................. no wonder Rossi was cryin like the bitch that he is, now that Lorenzo has the same bike, same tyres and gets the parts at the same time, Rossi is no longer looking like the god he is made to be. If Yourgay keeps it upright, he will spank Rossi more often than not. Time will tell.

[Captain]

I don't like it much Trev, but I reckon you're right.

[Mr.Ed]

I didn't see Rossi crying after the race (like a certain Ducati rider did) and on the post race interviews I read he mentioned it wasn't even his shoulder that kept him from being able to hold Lorenzo, he was just faster than him. Period. He also said that he was struggling to get the power down as early as Lorenzo which depending on your interpretation may or not be seen as him bitching about his bike.
Having said that, I LOVE the fact that Lorenzo is doing well this year. He definitely seems to be more mature and last race he proved he's learned to wait instead of just push for a (possible) victory. Good on him!

[Marshy]

These days I'm in the "anyone but Rossi" camp. He's dominated too long, and it's great to see another rider beating him squarely on the same equipment. I'm yet to fully warm to Whoregay, but for the sake of the sport I'm glad he's winning. Now if Casey could just keep the thing rubber-side-down for more than 2 laps, I'd be very happy.

[_chado77]

yeh good to see more guys giving it to rossi.. now for pedrosa/hayden/ daviso and co to find a few more seconds and stoner to last the distant then the years racing will be awesome

[*Oggy*]

Loved the popcorn and seat thing. It's must be phycing Rossi a bit when he comes up with the post race antics which were Rossi's thing

[Cedric]

I like it; I'm a Rossi fan but I enjoy watching Lorenzo ride. None can deny he has some skills on a bike.

It would be sad to see Rossi try to hold on to his stranglehold in the twilight of his career so I hope he quits at the top if his game ala Bayliss.

[Captain]

but Bayliss (and Schumacher) are making a comeback ....

[Bigdog]

I didn't see Rossi crying after the race (like a certain Ducati rider did) and on the post race interviews I read he mentioned it wasn't even his shoulder that kept him from being able to hold Lorenzo, he was just faster than him. Period. He also said that he was struggling to get the power down as early as Lorenzo which depending on your interpretation may or not be seen as him bitching about his bike.
Having said that, I LOVE the fact that Lorenzo is doing well this year. He definitely seems to be more mature and last race he proved he's learned to wait instead of just push for a (possible) victory. Good on him!

So if you crash on the 2nd lap, most probably ending your 2010 Championship aspirations, how are you supposed to act? I seriously doubt you would be jumping for joy. Rossi came second, no great loss and he is still in the Championship hunt. Apples and Oranges mate.

[Mr.Ed]

I'm just pointing out hat he's not (according to Birdman's post) 'crying like the bitch he is'. And Stoner is a whinger in my books, I won't deny that... Many a rider/racer have been in worst situations and very very few broke out in tears in front of its rivals like that.
The way I see it (and I'd stress the 'I' because it's a personal opinion indeed) it shows weakness under pressure and not being able to handle the downs that are inherent to the ups.
I'm under the impression that Stoner was a tougher competitor prior to being the champion. I honestly am.
I believe that the champion is usually someone that's mentally tough as IMO that's a big part of the battle in most sports and it's also where Rossi (and now Lorenzo) thrives and where Pedrosa fails miserably. I just hope Stoner can get his act together before it's too late.

[Bigdog]

Here's a little insight into Ducati's problems posted by someone who actually knows what is going on.

"For the record (I was actually at the Stoner post-race debrief), Stoner did not throw Hayden under a bus, he took the blame for the incident, and the only thing he complained about is not understanding why this happened. The Ducatis have a front end problem. Nicky also said he had a couple of big saves, and Stoner carried the bike on his elbow, then his knee for 20 meters before the rear finally came round on him."

Posted by David Emmett from MotoGP matters

[Mr.Ed]

Don't get me wrong, mate! I truly believe that Stoner can ride with the best and beat them all in his good days... All I'm saying is that breaking down and crying is a sign of weakness to your opponents and guys like Rossi feed on that kinda thing.
I'm all for crying if that helps but there's a time and place for everything... You can say that Rossi cries like the bitch he is, but he won't give the pleasure of proving it too often.

[Birdman45]

Never said he creid about losing the race, but he did whinge like a 5y/o most pre season about Lorenzo getting the parts at the same time and that he is only fast coz he rides off the back of Rossi's work. But fuk me dead.... look at what he says about this race or the last or whatever, and it's "my team fukt up and we used Lorenzo's settings"....... well which is it dumb arse? LOL He won't cry til it's over though and it's a long way til then. Not saying he won't still win it either.... lots can happen and will... but end of the day, all said and done, Lorenzo is KNOWN in the paddock to be faster than Rossi as a rider. That is all I am saying.

[oz r1]

they went forward 2 steps and back 1. sports tonite between moto2 and GP what the fuk are they thinkin. its gettin worse. and commercials mid race

i missed the moto 2 and tapped the moto gp but yeah noticed more commercials as I'm fast forwarding threw them.

[Mr.Ed]

Never said he creid about losing the race, but he did whinge like a 5y/o most pre season about Lorenzo getting the parts at the same time and that he is only fast coz he rides off the back of Rossi's work. But fuk me dead.... look at what he says about this race or the last or whatever, and it's "my team fukt up and we used Lorenzo's settings"....... well which is it dumb arse? LOL He won't cry til it's over though and it's a long way til then. Not saying he won't still win it either.... lots can happen and will... but end of the day, all said and done, Lorenzo is KNOWN in the paddock to be faster than Rossi as a rider. That is all I am saying.

I think he is too... Lorenzo will replace Rossi as the best rider, that's for sure. But so far, being faster hasn't completely translate into being better. Just a matter of (very little) time I reckon.

[MOTOBIKES ACCESSORIES]

Hey what I didn't see stoner crying.
Anyone got a clip of it?

[Cedric]

Never said he creid about losing the race, but he did whinge like a 5y/o most pre season about Lorenzo getting the parts at the same time and that he is only fast coz he rides off the back of Rossi's work. But fuk me dead.... look at what he says about this race or the last or whatever, and it's "my team fukt up and we used Lorenzo's settings"....... well which is it dumb arse? LOL He won't cry til it's over though and it's a long way til then. Not saying he won't still win it either.... lots can happen and will... but end of the day, all said and done, Lorenzo is KNOWN in the paddock to be faster than Rossi as a rider. That is all I am saying.

I categorically disagree with you. You clearly have and historically had a anti-Rossi bent and I can understand that. You have a cynical view of Rossi because he dismissed you in a Sepang nightclub? Fuck me, is it so unreasonable to want some time to himself? And if he plays up to the media then so what? He's taking advantage of the coverage he's being given and entertaining people which is what people watch racing for. How many people would watch a grid full of Pedrosa's? You always seize every opportunity to sing CE's praises - he is a rider who uses the media to his advantage as well! How is he any different?

The truth is that Rossi's a great rider and a great showman at the twilight of his career. Stoner whinges and complains constantly which turns me off; as an Aussie I idolise the battler and shun the whinger. Rossi very rarely blames his team (in public) and is always the first to acknowledge their assistance in his win. He really conveys the joy of motorcycle racing in its essence. So why the agro?

[Mr.Ed]

Hey what I didn't see stoner crying.
Anyone got a clip of it?

Not a lot of footage of it here, but it's all I could find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0OaMXN1arw

The left side of the bike looks pretty good in the end. I guess what they said about the clip ons could really be justified in this instance.

[MOTOBIKES ACCESSORIES]

Not a lot of footage of it here, but it's all I could find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0OaMXN1arw

The left side of the bike looks pretty good in the end. I guess what they said about the clip ons could really be justified in this instance.

Dorna has blocked the video on copyrights grounds

[Captain]

I agree with you Cedric ... except the bit about Rossi being at the twilight of his career. I'm betting he can stay on top for another 10 years. He's what ... 31 years old? Bayliss was on top of the world at 40ish ... and arguably, he could still be there. Should you retire when (if) you are no longer number 1? So what are all the other riders doing ... they're not number 1 either - and many know they will never be, This is the sport Rossi loves, as long as he's competitive, why should he quit? Some misguided public idea about quitting while you're on top? Schumacher and Bayliss made that mistake, hopefully Rossi will learn from it (IF he wants to continue racing, that is).

[Kat00]

Rossi is a God, perhaps the greatest sportsman of all time but to bet he can stay on top of MotoGP for another 10 years is fanciful in the extreme in my opinion.Bayliss, as good as he was was racing MotoGP hasbeens, Corser, Haga,Checa, Biaggi, Tamada........and that's to name a few and none of them did any good in MotoGP. Rossi is in the twilight of his career, it doesn't matter what way you look at it. To hilite just how good he was/is, he has had every single cock sure up and coming rider to contend with and they will only keep coming. All it will take is a good off and that will be the end of him. I for one would like to see him stay for another couple of years but I'd bet that's the best we can hope for. Like I said he is a God but all good things come to an end and unfortunately for us his best years are behind him.

[Bigdog]

Here is an interview done with Stoner after the race. He talks about the front end issues and be sure to read the comments at the end for a bit of objectivity and not bashing of riders.
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2010/05/26/casey_stoner_s_post_le_mans_press_confer.html

[Captain]

Like I said he is a God but all good things come to an end and unfortunately for us his best years are behind him.
But he's still winning races. How can you be the defending world champion, coming close second in the current championship (and it's early in the season) and be told that your best is behind you?
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/motorsport/moto-gp/driver-table/2010.html

[Stu23]

my take on this is that his shoulder injury was perhaps a lot worse that he admitted publicly, no point crashing and making it worse, take what you can the season is looooong

[Kat00]

Easily, You are in the No1 team and have the rookie of the year from 2008 and the runner up of the championship from 2009 in your team snapping at your heels and he is 8 years younger than you, like it or not they are coming to get him. For Rossi to stay on top he will have to push harder and by doing so he increases his likelyhood of injury. Mick Doohan retired at the age of 34 due to injury, old farts just don't heal the way they used to. I hope he can entertain us all for another couple of years, but 10? Come on! Age stops and slows us all, Reality sux don't it

Foot note, I agree with Stu......I reckon that shoulder injury is like a monkey sitting on his shoulder.....whispering.
.

[Mr.Ed]

Here is an interview done with Stoner after the race. He talks about the front end issues and be sure to read the comments at the end for a bit of objectivity and not bashing of riders.
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2010/05/26/casey_stoner_s_post_le_mans_press_confer.html

Cool! :) Good to see him in good spirits after that mess...
But I can't see how he can say that he was the only one with a lap time to challenge Lorenzo... Rossi was obviously there too but had to back off. And that's after leading the race and settling for second. 4th was Stoner's best position in the race and that's after struggling to overtake Hayden who he claims 'was falling behind'.
He might have been in it with a chance if it wasn't for his crash, but he sure wasn't the only one. And it wouldn't be easy to overtake Rossi, he'd sell that 2nd spot at a VERY high price knowing that Lorenzo was leading.

[Birdman45]

regardless of what happened during the race these guys know pretty well where they should end up come race end and who is looking good with race times vs pract and qual times etc.... you always hear them in the press conference after races saying they knew they'd be fast or they didn't think they'd make the podium etc, coz THEY know better than anyone else who is looking good for the race before it even happens, But racing is racing, and shit happens, so you can never be certain either way.

As for the agro... who is agro? LOL And I am not upset with Rossi coz of any incident or dismissal, that only confirmed what I already thought. And while they all use the media, CE and others, when away from it, are just as nice and take just as much time for the fans, you know, the ones that are keeping them in jobs. But that isn't what I am talking about at all anyway... i am only saying and have always said, for years now, Rossi would not be the god he is now, if not for the better equipment he has always had over his competitors... and now he hasn't got that, same bike and team, he is struggling to beat his team mate. Now put that in to perspective and make it that way since he was in the top class, and thing could/would have been VERY VERY different in how we saw him now as a rider.

Never saying he isn't a great rider, he is.... race craft is 2nd to none, but you cannot also say he hasn't had the advantage in bikes and equipment over those years.... well you can, but you're dreamin. haha

[Mr.Ed]

You're probably right there re the equipment. But that's true to just about any 'God like' champion in any motorsport... Be it F1 (Senna/Schumacher) or MotoGP (Agostini even!). You can be a champion on the second best bike/car but it won't happen so many times as it happened to these guys... And you can't dislike the guy for having won with the best equipment either... what's he gonna do? Say 'Nah... this bike is too good, give me something else so I can prove myself' ???
Not a single champion (or even contender) would ever do that I reckon.

[Kat00]

You're probably right there re the equipment. But that's true to just about any 'God like' champion in any motorsport... Be it F1 (Senna/Schumacher) or MotoGP (Agostini even!). .

Could say the same thing for horse racing too. I never saw TJ Smith put an apprentice on Kingston Town, old TJ wanted the best for the best.

[Birdman45]

Kat that is arse about face........ the argument is that if you put the champion jockey on an old nag, he wouldn't win too many races.... would he still be the champion he is deemed to be riding Kingston Town? Probably not... that is my argument there...... a fine line between being the best at one point and what they can sell for you. When Rossi first cam to GP he was already a star and lets face it, who's gonna make more money for more people in GP back then? Rossi or Max? So who is gonna get the better gear? Exactly.

[ottospunkmeister]

Kat that is arse about face........ the argument is that if you put the champion jockey on an old nag, he wouldn't win too many races.... would he still be the champion he is deemed to be riding Kingston Town? Probably not... that is my argument there...... a fine line between being the best at one point and what they can sell for you. When Rossi first cam to GP he was already a star and lets face it, who's gonna make more money for more people in GP back then? Rossi or Max? So who is gonna get the better gear? Exactly.

So part of the skill of being a good, competitive racer is to make sure you always try and get the best equipment to help you win championships. Isn't that just doing your job as a professional?

[Foghorn]

Horse Racing.......a topic I know a little something about, Malcolm Johnston on the King.....god that horse had heart and Mal would flog his mounts to get them across the line - The King didn't like the whip much.

Granted a champion jockey may not get an old nag first across the line, but what he will do is read the race and get his mount in a winning position.

Stoner appears to be somewhat mentally fragile - that does not attract from his achievements. However I would wager that if you lined Bayliss and Stoner on comparative bikes the smart money would be on Bayliss - why because has a touch of Malcolm Johnston about him where Stoner probably has a touch of Kerrin McEvoy.

[Birdman45]

So part of the skill of being a good, competitive racer is to make sure you always try and get the best equipment to help you win championships. Isn't that just doing your job as a professional?

absolutely, and again I am not saying Rossi isn't good, and in fact he is the f'kin master at media and in "image" and negotiating the best gear etc etc etc... nobody is doubting that, and again, he is an amazing rider. All I am saying is he wouldn't be the king that we see him as today if not for the better gear. Does this make him the best/fastest rider maybe of all time? In my mind no.... it makes him an awesome rider that had better gear than everyone else all the time. This is the first since he started in the top class that he has had the same gear as his team mate and so far, he has found it very very hard to be beating his team mate like he has dominated them prior to this being the case? No??