Car oil in a bike??

[Gixxer]

Has any one used car oil in there bikes??

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm
check the link

[Cleverlie]

Im using car oil at the moment. Ever since i put it in the bike its been going harder and reving easier, gave me an extra 500rpm.

[holdontight]

use what you like. But if you would like to keep ya warranty use what ya told.
when I had my Harley not only did you have to run Bike type oil but you had to use Gen Harley oil & that shit is not cheap.

[Havago]

Interesting article

makes no mention though of the clutch issue: many car oils have PTFE or similar additives as "friction-reducers", which is not good for motorcycle wet clutches where you want them to grip...

[ihampster]

i used car oil in my dirt bike ... suzuki rmx250... no problems:ayyy:

[Birdman]

Nooooooooooooooooo

this might be ok in a Ducati cause lets face it who would care:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

just kidding

but car oils have friction modifiers in them which is no good for a wet clutch

some might be ok but theres no way i would use car oil in a bike unless i was stranded and it was the only thing i could find

[Poyda]

Used castrol GTX in my old zzr250 many years ago. Worst thing I ever did. Clutch started to slip when hot and grab when cold. Sold the bike real quick

Wouldn't use car oil in a bike, would rather wait for a tow

[Yarnie]

Thats right, car oils have friction modifiers in them, and they will damage your clutch, thats only if its a wet clutch setup, so most dukes and harleys should be fine.

[Cleverlie]

The oil im using its some pretty damn good stuff. Before i put it in my bike i called the company and asked them if its fine for bikes/wet clutchs and they said yeah. I've never had any problems with my clutch yet so im fine.

Also i've used this oil in a couple other bikes with nothing but good reviews.

[Havago]

The oil im using its some pretty damn good stuff. Before i put it in my bike i called the company and asked them if its fine for bikes/wet clutchs and they said yeah. I've never had any problems with my clutch yet so im fine.

Also i've used this oil in a couple other bikes with nothing but good reviews.

What oil is it you are using ?

[Cleverlie]

What oil is it you are using ?

Wouldn't you like to know...

Nah im using royal purple.

http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whyrpa.html

just to say again i haven't noticed any differences on my clutch from normal oil to this one.

What do you guys think about it?

[Marcus]

Yeah what oil? I have been hapy using 5100 in all of my bikes.

[Fezz]

What's the idea behind using car oil?

Is it that you save a couple of dollars per oil chance and run the risk of damaging your bike? :confused:

I'll stick with my Motul I think!

[Cleverlie]

My (car) oil costs me $80. :(
This stuff isn't cheap.

[Fezz]

Yeah I know Royal Purple is rather exxy, I used to run it in my SS.

To me though, it's not worth the risk using a product not specifically made for bikes?

[Cleverlie]

Yeah, I was thinking the same so next oil change im going to try something different but along the lines of $80 bike oil.

After all that i'll use what i think is best. If something fucks up on the engine it'll be on of those times to get better parts.

[mick]

I agree with the clutch slipping. I used car oil a few years ago and regretted it. Ive also heard the friction modifiers in car oil make the roller bearings skid instead of rolling causing premature wear. This would probably go on for some time before you notice it.

[lilninja]

if your paying 80 buck for car oil why not use motul bike oil which is cheaper?
Its like putting deisel in your bike, yes it is fuel but the bike was not designed to run on it!

My 2c

[jasonbw]

Or use 2 stroke oil like Turtle :) :)

I paid $89 for 4 Lt of oil today... want to try out the Q8 superbike stuff on the trackkie.. will see.. if it stops the engine from throwing a valve in T1 then I'll be happy :)

[Havago]

After not long spending $3000 + on my engine I think I'll just use Motul. :ayyy:
The last thing I need is to have to explain to the wife why my engine gave up the ghost again.

[Kat00]

Ive used Fuchs from the first oil change
It looks like transmission fluid.
Its motorcycle specific.
Expensive too.
If the K5 gixxers have an achiles heel its the clutch. Mine has been and still is perfect and I put it down to the oil.

[jasonbw]

After not long spending $3000 + on my engine I think I'll just use Motul. :ayyy:
The last thing I need is to have to explain to the wife why my engine gave up the ghost again.

Not that I'm an oil tech, this is 2nd hand info so treat it with the credit it deserves, but... Motul I hear is now made in Malaysia, an oil refinery tech I know swore he will never buy Motul again since its production moved there. Its marketed as a 'technosynthese' making you think its synthetic, its not, its petroleum based. I'm now off Motul and buying Q8 / Belray or another brand I forgot but they're all made in EU or the USA (belray is USA).

Not tried Fuchs, but if its made over in the EU where they're FAR more strict then I'd be going for that too.

[Kat00]

this is the shit


http://www.silkolene.com/productlist.asp?SECTION_OBJ_ID=25245

[Havago]

this is the shit


http://www.silkolene.com/productlist.asp?SECTION_OBJ_ID=25245

Thanks Kat00 :ayyy:

[jasonbw]

Ummm... sorry Kat00 but this is the other brand that he said had been moved off to Malaysia... the Silkolene stuff in the UK/USA you buy is WAY different to what we get. Apparently.

Best checking that out... I'll call the guy asap and will get back to you.

[Marcus]

I wanted to try the 5/40 silkoline which is about $90 but I figured I can dump the oil twice as much using the 5100 (half the price)

[Kat00]

I`m getting some on Saturday.....I`ll let ya know where is says its made.

[jasonbw]

good stuff.. thanks.

[jasonbw]

This is the guy to ask, I'll pop him an email.
http://www.illawarrariders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3611

[Cleverlie]

if your paying 80 buck for car oil why not use motul bike oil which is cheaper?
Its like putting deisel in your bike, yes it is fuel but the bike was not designed to run on it!

My 2c

I don't like cheap oils?
A mate of mine has been using royal purple for roughly about....erm..15,000km and not had a problem and im very aware i shouldn't technically be using it but as i said before or atlest i think i said it before, is that im also gonna try another oil ment for bikes.

[Kimbo]

Motul's 3100 it think has always been a Technosynthese. It think their 5100 is their full synthetic.It doesn't where the oil is refined they have to comply with a rating. This is a world wide rating . car oil is now SI or higher, Bike oil is best at SG. I used Shell full synthetic but last year i went to Mobil racing full synthetic. Great oil and good in the gearbox.

[jace]

I've got both Motul 5100 & 7100 in the garage,reading the container,the 5100 is a semi syn & the 7100 full syn.

I usualy use both depending on how much I want to spend on oil @ the time,but I must say the 7100 @ $20 extra I do notice a little differance in the way the bike runs (smoother).It holds its colour & body better too after a few thou k's.

As for oil companies moving to Malaysia.....well I think you'll find that a lot of the oil industries have done the same move.

How many of you use Shell Fuel & oils? Well guess where they are based!

[Gixxer]

I was just asking because I get Car oil free!! FREEEEE!!!
and its 15w40 caltex oil, But i have to pay for bike oil!
I might not risk it! I've been use Repol sythetico
I get it for pretty cheap

[jasonbw]

Very cheap, $50 is the price I paid and I thought that was a bargain :)

Malaysia moves for oil companies, no, not a lot have, and those that have do not meet the same standards as are regulated for oil on sale in the EU. So the motul you buy here is FAR different to the motul you'd buy in the US or UK. I think you're a refnery tech Kimbo? maybe I'm remembering wrong, but yes they do comply with a minimum, but thats not the EU standards. Food for thought anyway.

[Marcus]

If you get it free, sell it and just buy the oil you want?!

[Julz01]

If you get it free, sell it and just buy the oil you want?!

bit of a shady question to ask someone.
'wunna buy my car oil?'
:lmao:

[Marcus]

bit of a shady question to ask someone.
'wunna buy my car oil?'
:lmao:


I was thinging more along the lines of "pssst, wanna buy some lube" :p

[Kimbo]

Hey Jason. Yeh the oil standards are set in consultation with the car companies [US and Japan etc]. They say what they want. Mainly now it's a thin or light oil with lots of viscosity improvers . Easy starting with quick flow and then good protection when hotter . Car oils don't have to put up with gearboxes like motorbike oils do. After running in a good mineral changed often , or go to a good synthetic. Synthetic oil is a lot more robust so it copes with the shearing of the molecules especially in the gearbox. Working for Caltex I get cheap oil , but I wouldn't use car oil in my bikes. How many cars do you know that rev to 15,000-16,000 rpm or even 12000 like most bike engines do. Some oils are formulated in Australia, We actually make basestock for some companies , but I am pretty sure no motorbike oil is made here, definately no synthetic. Our population base is too small so it's imported
If you stick with a name brand [ motul, shell, mobil etc ] you shouldn't have any trouble

[jasonbw]

Cool Kimbo, this might be best directed at Gixxer who asked the question. Never would I put car oil into my bikes, understood about the importance many years back so its only the best for any bike I've ever owned

You might be a good person to answer this... on a track bike which frequently hits the limiter, would a top shelf $89 synthetic oil last more trackdays than a reasonable mineral oil? i.e. give them 3 trackdays and thats enough, or would you expect the more expensive oil to 'last' longer?


P.s. Best being what would best suit the bike, I dont use synthetic till after 10,000k's roughly and very regular oil+filter changes.

[Gixxer]

pssst who wants to swap car oil for bike oil? psst psssttt!!! lol

[Kimbo]

Jason.That's a tough question. I guess the best answer is to use the best quality oil you can afford and change it often. I use Mobil full synthetic race oil and change it and the filter after approx 3 track days. I use the mobil oil in my street blade. Oil has such a hard life in a bike with lubrication, cooling, removing contaminents,getting chewed up in the gearbox, clutch plate debris,combustion byproducts. So I figure a decent oil will save me money in the long run. You don't put synthetic in a new engine because the you won't get the rings and bore to bed in properly because of the superiour lubrication of synthetic oil.
hope this helps Jason. I know it was a bit of a fence sit but there aren't bad oils if you stick with the known brands, and / or use what the manufacturer recommends
I used to work in our lube refinery but have been in the fuels refinery for 27yrs.Don't get me started on the differences in gasoline, ha,

[jasonbw]

Your post a few months back on Gasoline was great, I had no idea those guys use the same fuel!! Aweomse info thanks.
3 trackdays hey, I was thinking I'll change after 3 but was hoping youd say more :):):) but like I said, were paying to minimise the risk of a blowup mid Turn 1 where it'd hurt... I guess its just a small premium to pay to make such a risky sport a little less risky.

[Kimbo]

Jason. I just use 3 because it's easy to remember and some of my friends that race use that number.You could probably use more ,Maybe email some of the oil technical departments and get some info from them. They would be in a better position than me, as I talk to our technical people about fuel but not oils. With synthetic oil ,it is pretty much indestructable. You change it to get rid of things that get through the filter like metal and alike but also the buildup of acids from the combustion process, condensation and chewed up additives.With trackys they sit there after a day on the track and since the don't get used the acid and water sit in the sump. actually running them once a week or so you charge the battery and warm the oil up enough to get rid of any water or condensation buildup. Mate falling off at turn 10/11 at about 60ks was enough for me on the 30th. Funnily enough it was oil related. The guys sump plug fell out and dropped the oil out. How I laughed when I came to in the medical centre. It came out well on video though.

[jasonbw]

You got your fall on Video??? :) that almost makes it worth it :) :) cheers mate, great info.

[Kimbo]

I have actually . I will trim it down and post it

[gazza414]

This is probably one of the best "oil" dicussion threads you'll come across..just factual , no flaming and good technical representation.

It has been going many years and if you have the time read all the posts..much to learn and of interest.

http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php?board=3.0

[jasonbw]

Welcome Gazza, sadly that link takes me to a forum, not a specific thread?? Got any keywords?

[gazza414]

Sorry, this maybe better

http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php?topic=38314.0

[jasonbw]

Bewdy, reading now.

[jasonbw]

Damn that was good Gazza, top class find ! Thank you !

[Madmax01]

Ive used Fuchs from the first oil change
It looks like transmission fluid.
Its motorcycle specific.
Expensive too.
If the K5 gixxers have an achiles heel its the clutch. Mine has been and still is perfect and I put it down to the oil.

I also use this oil I get it from super cheap as they are cheaper that most bike shops
the oil is made in england
have been using this oil for more years than I care :ayyy:
Another good oil for older bikes is the penrite enduro :ayyy:

[gazza414]

Here's an update wrt the Castrol Edge and R4 Superbike oil..full synthetic

http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php?topic=38314.750

[jasonbw]

Thanks Gazza, I'm a bit stuck though, can you clear this up?

The R4, is that a known Group IV Synthetic? I'm amazed how underhanded Castrol are about saying their EDGE product is Fully Synthetic yet its Group III. Plain wrong.

Also, whre printman says the pour point differs, I could not see that. they both say the same pour point. See this post: http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php?topic=38314.msg1436722#msg1436722

Thoughts?

[gazza414]

Thanks Gazza, I'm a bit stuck though, can you clear this up?

The R4, is that a known Group IV Synthetic? I'm amazed how underhanded Castrol are about saying their EDGE product is Fully Synthetic yet its Group III. Plain wrong.

Also, whre printman says the pour point differs, I could not see that. they both say the same pour point. See this post: http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php?topic=38314.msg1436722#msg1436722

Thoughts?

Jason the Edge 5w-30 product has a pour point of -38'C whilst the R4 Castrol product has a pour point of -54'C...these are the tell tales that leads one to differentiate between a true synthetic and one which is either blended ie a semi -synthetic or is "cracked from a mineral base oil which is the 5w-30 Edge.
From what I see wrt the data is that the R4 product is a single ester oil ( group 4 oil )...products such as Motul 3000 is a double ester oil hence group 5...BUT at $109 for 4 litres...ummmmm

If you google Mobil 1 oil there is a good story about the court case that took place in the USA about how Castrol won when they are allowed to call a "semi synthetic " a fully synthetic...due to content and "definition"

I spoke with another company in Melbourne yesterday called Oleon Oils who sponsor a bike in an Australian series..their fully sunthetic oil is also indeed made from a group 3 mineral base oil...so here we go again.

you'll find that alot of the high end mineral base oil and the semi synthetic oils will all have pour points around the -29'C to -36'C..its a relatively easy tell tale.

The only exception to this is with some true group 4 hydraulic oils .
hope this helps

[FIREBLADE]

repsol full synthetic here..

[Kimbo]

Not sure about that Gazza. You are talking multiweight oils{ 5w-30 etc}A straight weight oil ,these pour points might be correct, but multiweights are a base oil with additives which make the oil act like a light oil for cool temps and startup and high viscosity oil when hot.

[gazza414]

Not sure about that Gazza. You are talking multiweight oils{ 5w-30 etc}A straight weight oil ,these pour points might be correct, but multiweights are a base oil with additives which make the oil act like a light oil for cool temps and startup and high viscosity oil when hot.

kimbo..I'm just talking synthetic oils and a way to tell the difference between them and mineral oil base synthetic oils...the pour point is a tell tale technical spec..nothing to do with the Winter viscosity rating..... the mineral oil base oils have residual waxes in them and as such ,at lower temps will not flow --the definition of the pour point temp is when the oil changes to what is described as a plastic rather than a fluid. The true synthetics are very pure oils thus contain no waxes. That is what an Industrial Chemist explained it to me in laymans terms.

[gazza414]

probably this decribes the situation pretty well..this is a subject which is well documented since it set the playing filed that many use.

In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has nearly the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. The much more expensive traditional synthetics are now available in their pure forms only in more expensive and harder to obtain oils. To the best of my knowledge, Delvac-1, AMSOil, Redline, and Motul 5100 are the only oils made from pure traditional synthetics.

[Kimbo]

True synthetics if I remember correctly from talking to our Chemical engineers is actually produced from LPG which is a byproduct of refining anyway.Our lube refinery is the only one left in Australia now. It produces base oil but not for synthetics. Heavy Saudi crude is used in the manufacture in OZ as our crude is too light with lots of middle distillates The good thing about synthetics is they are robust. They can handle the shearing action of a motorbike gearbox.
So getting back to the start of this thread . It is better to use a bike specific oil than a car oil . Mineral or Syn

[jasonbw]

Jason the Edge 5w-30 product has a pour point of -38'C whilst the R4 Castrol product has a pour point of -54'C...these are the tell tales that leads one to differentiate between a true synthetic and one which is either blended ie a semi -synthetic or is "cracked from a mineral base oil which is the 5w-30 Edge.
From what I see wrt the data is that the R4 product is a single ester oil ( group 4 oil )...products such as Motul 3000 is a double ester oil hence group 5...BUT at $109 for 4 litres...ummmmm

If you google Mobil 1 oil there is a good story about the court case that took place in the USA about how Castrol won when they are allowed to call a "semi synthetic " a fully synthetic...due to content and "definition"

I spoke with another company in Melbourne yesterday called Oleon Oils who sponsor a bike in an Australian series..their fully sunthetic oil is also indeed made from a group 3 mineral base oil...so here we go again.

you'll find that alot of the high end mineral base oil and the semi synthetic oils will all have pour points around the -29'C to -36'C..its a relatively easy tell tale.

The only exception to this is with some true group 4 hydraulic oils .
hope this helps

Thanks mate, but I should have been clearer, the link I put in above takes you to printmans post, where he said the datasheet for the EDGE oil says the pour point is -54deg, which doesnt make sence. (look for this sentence: ""This one states it'a -54 C and is the 0-30 Edge oil, so I'm confused on there data sheets which is more accurate"")

Doesnt matter since with your info and that thread I understand it better. May have been a typo on his part?

[gazza414]

Jason, not sure where Printman got the number from as the Castrol data sheet doesnt state that. It is as documented -38'C

here's the link

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/4399_EDGESport5W30_119240_200603.pdf