HRC cams and Pistons CBR1000RR04 [Archive]

jasonbw

01-12-2007, 08:20 PM

You might already know this, but in case you don't, Wiseco make, but don't advertise, pistons for the CBR1000RR that raise compression to 13.5:1 !!! pop into www.1000rr.net if you want more info.

Keep an eye on www.trademe.co.nz as well, lot of good stuff passes through there.

P.s.While you have the engine apart you should consider HRC valve springs + retainers, they dont cost much extra and it'll cope with extra revs should you put the 13,500rpm + HRC / DK ECU in. I have some good contacts for the best prices for this gear, mainly a guy in Japan, but another in the USA. Seriously best in the world like prices. Cheers

Jungleboy

02-12-2007, 11:50 AM

Hey Danny,

Im about to start building up another motor myself so I have been doing a fair bit of research on how to get the most HP from the big Honda.

Luckily if you want to build a weapon of a Superbike the Honda is the best choice, what is the tamest bike in standard trim actually has the most potential when modified. Honda have built a great superbike engine then pulled the rug out from under it for use in their streetbike by knocking all the compresion out of it (This is the key to big HP with the CBR1000RR). The other great thing about a full house Honda engine is that the power curve is very linear and not peaky at all its strong every where) actually the 2004-2005 HRC WSBK cams had too much torque which was causing tracion problems, the 2006 WSBK HRC cams are actually designed to keep torque down to a certain level to achieve faster lap times.

In world superbike it seems any decent privateer can build a 215HP beast using HRC parts which arnt as expensive as people tend to think.. (tenkate have built motors with over 225 Rear wheel HP with their own cams but the valve springs requires too much maintainence.

Yet is seems to take a full on factory effort to get much over 200 out of the other 3... which everyone seems to get so excited about in street trim.

First you have to decide what HP level you are chasing so you know which of the 4 HRC cams you will use and how much compression you will need to run.

The cams are:

1) Basic racer (low lift long duration, standard compression 12.1:1, 170ish RWHP, 13,500rpm rev limit)

2) JSB Endurance (low lift, medium duration 13.5:1 comp 180ish RWHP,13000rpm limit.

3) JSB (Japanese Superbike) medium lift, medium duration 13.5:1 comp 180-190 RWHP, 13,500rpm rev limit.

4) WSBK (High lift, long duration 14.5:1 comp, 205-215RWHP, 13,750rpm rev limit) :eek:

Jas is on the right track with the pistons, HRC are quite expensive, and JE and Wiseco have good pistons off the shelf that rate around 13.5:1 which are good for all but the WSBK spec cams which require 14.5:1 (even 15:1)compression to work properly! And yes this is running 98 octane unleaded without any pinging, preignition or detionation! Thats what the World Superbike guys have to run.

Some of the pistons run chrome rings which require the standard Honda cylinder plating to be striped and recoated with Nikasil (this can be done by Electrosil in melbourne) althought I think both Wiseco and JE do a piston that use the standard rings so honda's origional cylinder coating can be utilised although its known that the standard honda coating scuffs easily... So I would prefer to go with the Nikasil.

Danny If you want to go in with me to have 2 sets of of custom JE 14.5:1 pistons made maybe we could get them a little cheaper...

There is some 13.5:1 JE pistons on ebay in both standard and 2mm oversize that would perfectly complement the JSB spec cams for 190+ Hp (with a small amount of headwork of course)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120111638218&rd=1

RIPPERTON

02-12-2007, 04:25 PM

Yeah sounds good but Ill settle for 13;1 and JSB cams. (apparently standard compresion ratio is 12 ;1) Hang on how much are these custom 14;1 pistons going to cost you and are you going to have valve clearance problems with the higher lift? And then what cams are you putting in (and how much are they?)
I spoke with Geoff the ripoff artist at Wangaratta who does Hollands engines and he may have some second hand HRC cams showing up in January. Ive just pulled my motor down again after Phillip Island cause of loose sounding mains when hot cause Geoff sold me some random bearings that I needed in a hurry (at full price). So Il be plastgauging them and closing them up a bit. Geoff says he runs his mains loose but these are a bit too loose.
I dont want to go with the heavier valve springs if I can avoid it so will have to stick with either low or medium lift.
So let me know what your purchase time frame is and Il see if I can come up with some cash.
Thanks Jai

jasonbw

02-12-2007, 04:33 PM

You two might be interested in these... HRC pads are reputed to be top notch.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres-brakes/auction-129186009.htm

RIPPERTON

02-12-2007, 05:58 PM

$621.00 AU for set of 4 13;1 pistons plus postage Bargain... lets do it
Wonder what they weigh. the stockers are 179gr each without pin or rings I think

Marcus

03-12-2007, 12:38 PM

Jai I can help, I go through a lot of JE and arias pistons and get pretty good prices.

If you want custom, from memory they are $165 US each inc pins and rings of your choice. Shipping is about $45 US via USPS 7 day for 1 set. Lead is 4 weeks depending on workload.

So if you want the ones like in the Ebay link, but with 14.5 CR the easiest thing to do is use the JE part number, then say "I want 14.5:1 comp"

If you have specific squish areas, ring land sizes, pin heights for custom rods etc they need all of those details.

Ripperton, if you need JE shelf or custom pistons, let me know. Splitting shipping will work out a little cheaper (and easy).

I used to be able to get custom springs really cheap but they stopped doing them as they wernt making enough money compared to the volume.

Lastly, im guessing you guys will already know this but the more overlap your cams have, the more it will drop static comp which is probably why the SB Spec cams and 14.5:1 work on 98 ron fuel. That or they have a specific ignition MAP

Marcus

03-12-2007, 12:44 PM

http://www.kwsmotorsports.com/cbr1000rr.htm

Jungleboy

04-12-2007, 10:05 PM

Wow Marcus, good to know youve got a lot of experiance in this area, I have already sent a couple of emails to JE and they quoted me about $800 US for 14.5:1 pistons, just have to confirm with them the clearance I need with my HRC cams.

Sounds like youve delt with them quite abit, has that been for work or pleasure?

Marcus

05-12-2007, 12:18 PM

Cars, yes, bikes.... NFI mate.

The current arias EJ25 (turbo 2.5L) with 2.0L (normal WRX) early big port heads is my design, which they are now using as shelf pistons. I did this when I worked for my previous employer which sort of sux as I would have been entitled to royalties.

It really doesnt bother me as being a shelf piston, they are heaps cheaper and I dont have to wait 4 weeks + shipping time. Having blocks sitting around waiting on pistons is really annoying and takes up space.

$800 US from a retail POV is about right, depending on rings. Discounts off shelf pistons is better tho.

RIPPERTON

15-12-2007, 10:11 AM

http://www.slipstreamperformance.com.au/index.htm

k heres a HRC dealer in QLD that has regular weekly order runs to Japan and delivery is 10 days to them. $600 per camshaft but will still have to go with JE pistons. Im lookin at 14:1 as well now but with standard valves might give better clearance.
I found my number 4 and 5 main bearings to have 0.05mm oil clearance. thats enough to cause a noise when hot only ie when pulling into pits but let sit for 5 minutes and restart, no noise. Clearance range is 0.02 to 0.03mm.
put different shells in and its back in the frame now.

Turtle

15-12-2007, 02:42 PM

I'll Be Interested To Know How Much This Build Will Cost, I May Be In For Some Of That.....

Jungleboy

15-12-2007, 07:28 PM

Hey Danny, got your email about slipstream, if they say there is no difference between JSB and WSB HRC parts, they are completely clueless.....

And thats pretty much what their bussiness revolves around.. What a joke!

RIPPERTON

15-12-2007, 08:48 PM

Yeah I thought so but they say they have been selling HRC stuff for 13 years in the UK. Sounds wierd

Jungleboy

16-12-2007, 09:57 PM

Heres some specs that were once on the HRC website, it has since been taken down as the WSBK parts have since been revised (longer duration) and HRC dont seem to release specs anymore but I managed to save a copy to my server. Duration has since increased to improve top end performance so you can see that there is quite a difference in specs between the JSB and SBK Camshafts... (duration and lift)

WSBK (Revised specs)
Inlet Opens:22BTDC Close:58ABDC (total 260)
Exhaust Opens:53BBDC Close:22ATDC (total 255)

http://jungleboyracing.250free.com/HRC/Honda%20Worldwide%20%20HRC%20%20Technical%20Inform ation%20%20Result.htm

RIPPERTON

17-12-2007, 08:45 AM

As far as timing alone is concerned Id rather have JSB cams, Less overlap means smoother idle .Exhaust duration is the samebut WSB inlet duration is 5 deg longer. JSB have less lift than WSB (but more than std) so less tendancy to bounce.

RIPPERTON

03-01-2008, 05:42 PM

MUAHAHAHA
guess what I got
HRC 05 WSBK $1100 with HRC springs and full set of new collets

jasonbw

03-01-2008, 05:58 PM

Holy hell... GREAT price... where??? Who's installing them ?

zRoYz

03-01-2008, 07:22 PM

Holy hell... GREAT price... where??? Who's installing them ?

humm you sleepy today, think he will be as he does his own motors :)

looks like someone scored off a race team RIPPERTON bet your :mod_smilie_rockwoot

RIPPERTON

03-01-2008, 08:36 PM

humm you sleepy today, think he will be as he does his own motors :)

looks like someone scored off a race team RIPPERTON bet your :mod_smilie_rockwoot

:mod_smilie_rockwoot
oh yeah
got them of a mate of Ian Irving's
they are second hand but they have only done 2 races.
They wont be going in str8 away cause I have to send the timing diagrams off to JE pistons so they can make the 14:1 custom pistons.
Still looking for a oil cooler.

Turtle

03-01-2008, 08:53 PM

:mod_smilie_rockwoot
oh yeah
got them of a mate of Ian Irving's
they are second hand but they have only done 2 races.
They wont be going in str8 away cause I have to send the timing diagrams off to JE pistons so they can make the 14:1 custom pistons.
Still looking for a oil cooler.

Sounds like its gonna be a VERY SWEET ride after that work's done !!!:ayyy:

jasonbw

03-01-2008, 09:30 PM

:) ok, too sleepy to realise Rippertons a good spanner, but I'm not too sleepy to know you said you found an oil cooler on eBay USA, that didnt work out ?

RIPPERTON

03-01-2008, 10:52 PM

Well the seller is incomunicado atm. Im thinking maybe christmas holidays so Im giving them a bit of time to respond to Email then im pulling the payment through paypal.

Turtle I dont think its gonna be a sweet ride
its gonna be more like riding a psychotic roid fueled wild boar from hell in need of anger management therapy.
Its going to be difficult tiring (both mentally and physically) and unforgiving to ride but thats what ticks my clock :eyecrazy:

Turtle

04-01-2008, 05:51 AM

dungbeetle

14-02-2008, 03:58 PM

dunno if ya still looking for pistons, or if these are even the right ones....but heres a link..

http://www.aus-superbikes.com.au/xtremema.nsf/3af4b8961d968b8fca256e410079fd79/7a8eed426da8d023ca2573ee00406c1f!OpenDocument

RIPPERTON

17-02-2008, 06:27 PM

Dunger what a coincidence I never saw your post here but I did see the same 13.5:1 pistons and Carrillo rods on auction on Egay and I just scored them for $710 ! (plus $25 shipping)
Bidding started at $500. Even talked to the seller on the phone (bit of a redneck) but hmm should be good for 190 > 200 hp

clarkey

18-02-2008, 12:36 PM

Ripperton,do you no if the same could be done with a 954,??:confused1:

jasonbw

18-02-2008, 02:25 PM

Ha, you got them? cool, had sent that link to Jai earlier this week but he was keen on a diff set. Did see they just sold, good stuff. Time how long to take the head off a 1000rr now :D

RIPPERTON

18-02-2008, 04:08 PM

Yeah the dude had multiple auto bids going and by the time I placed my first bid it was $670 and it came back straight away with "you have been outbid" but still a good deal, theres no way I could have bought them that cheap if I had gone to the manufacturer. The rods are 30 grams lighter than stock each.
The first thing Ill be doing is running the piston part numbers by the JE website to see what compression ratio they really are but they seem to be the standard 13.5:1 shelf piston.

RIPPERTON

21-02-2008, 07:18 PM

Turtle

21-02-2008, 07:34 PM

Got em in the mail today :mod_smilie_rockwoot :mod_smilie_rockwoot

pistons are 29 grams HEAVIER than stock and the rods are coincidently exactly 29grams LIGHTER than the stock rods. wierd but both the pistons and rods are things of beauty.

Good luck with it D.......it will be good to see what sort of power you get when finished..?? What sort of hp do you expect it to have ?

RIPPERTON

21-02-2008, 09:29 PM

190 > 200hp at the wheel
but this may take some fiddling with cam timing

jasonbw

21-02-2008, 09:37 PM

woooah... geeesus mate !!!!! Damn !!!

seals

22-02-2008, 09:38 AM

RIPPERTON

22-02-2008, 06:28 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lmao: :lmao:

I wrote an Email to John Noonan of J.E. pistons and quoted the part number on the bottom of the pistons.............

He writes straight back and confirms that they are 10:1 turbo pistons for a CBR1000RR.

P W N T :doggy:

Damn its a good thing I dont trust anyone, imagine if I had put those bloody things in my engine.
The rods look to be right though. F A R K I N EGAY :cursing: :cursing:

WET4URacing

22-02-2008, 06:36 PM

re ebay them quik. i get a giggle from u boys

RIPPERTON

22-02-2008, 06:41 PM

re ebay them quik. i get a giggle from u boys

as what, 13.5:1 pistons ?

Im on the drag racing section of Fireblades.org honda forum. Should find out what they are worth.

kellz

22-02-2008, 06:43 PM

thats fukked aye!!! i been ripped a couple times on ebay lately and have just got the shits with it. but we gotta source cheap parts somewhere dont we!!
dungy...

Marcus

22-02-2008, 06:46 PM

Generally speaking, anything with a dish is usually for boost.

Jungleboy

24-02-2008, 04:35 PM

I wrote an Email to John Noonan of J.E. pistons and quoted the part number on the bottom of the pistons.............

He writes straight back and confirms that they are 10:1 turbo pistons for a CBR1000RR.

I have a turbo you could buy to go with those :P

Im leaning away from JE's as a guy I know built a motor with the 13.5:1 JE's and on assembly found that the was a fair variation in deck hieght between each piston, doesnt say much for their quality control...

RIPPERTON

24-02-2008, 05:26 PM

Its hard to imagine how there would be any difference between pistons as they are all cnc machined and a set of 4 pistons should be all identical but check these shots out. Im having trouble seeing how this engine would have lasted too long. The gudgeon penetrates into the piston only 9.25mm each side and theres 6.8mm piston to rod gap. whereas on my R1 there is 15.5mm penetration and 1.8mm piston to rod gap.
PS Jai I have some pistons to go with that Turbo !!! 8^)

Turtle

24-02-2008, 05:41 PM

RIPPERTON

01-03-2008, 06:40 AM

John Noonan admits the pistons are faulty, ie they are machined with not enough pin penetration into the lugs. They wouldnt wear prematurely. they wouldnt get that old. They might be ok under full boost but as soon as the throttle would shut the manifold vacuum would pull the pins out of the bottom of the pistons...sooner or later.
But because the pistons were made 2 years ago they are outside manufacturer warranty and JE dont do 3rd party warranties but after a lengthy phone call with John, he has offered to make a set of proper 13.5:1's for me if I use the rings a clips that I already have for $450US.
He suggested using the pins too but they are part of the problem being too short. so clip grooves will be made to suite the stock Honda pin. The shelf pistons dont go with any kind of cam other than stock so I have to tell John how much deeper to make the valve recess's to suit the bigger durations (not lift) of the HRC cams.
So the JE pistons I bought are basically ash trays. Their only worth is the rings and clips that came with them BUT the real bargain was the rods.The seller apparently had no idea how much Carrillo rods are worth. He quoted the price of a single rod as what he payed for the set of 4.
So the Ebay deal breaks down like this.
Of the $710 I payed
$450 was for the pistons which I will have to add $480AU to to get new ones
$260 was for the rods which would normally have cost $1550AU pp.
In the end I will have payed $1190AU for $2400 worth of gear approx.
Anyone want an ashtray ?????:)

dungbeetle

01-03-2008, 06:45 AM

jasonbw

01-03-2008, 09:35 AM

RIPPERTON

01-03-2008, 12:08 PM

did ya get ya money back for the pistons? if ya bought them off ebay...
im just going thru a claim at the moment and have got half my money back, and should be getting the full amount in the next couple days :D its worth the hassle!!

If I get a refund for the pistons alone I would have to send them back to the seller complete with rings and clips then pay full price for the new ones. Not sure what the better economy is. The seller is probably off the hook in my books BUT he might just get a scathing write up in Ebay feedback. He should have known exactly what kind of pistons they were.
If I sell the pistons as ashtrays and keep the rings for the new pistons I wont have to waste time arguing with Ebay and the seller and could come out on top at least time wise. Even John Noonan said with the deal i got I could afford to throw the pistons in the bin and still come out on top. He flipped when I told him how much I payed for the whole deal.
:dancesmiley:

RIPPERTON

01-03-2008, 12:28 PM

What I see as most impressive mate is the fact you spotted the flaw before it became a prob. Would it be normal for engine builders to not trust JE got it right and start questioning the gudgeon pins length (and depth into the piston)? I don't know but it sounds like a bit of skepticism paid off big time. :ayyy:

Standard Mechanics procedure is check all parts as soon as you get them.
For size type and for faults even before your'e ready to install them.
But these pistons... soon as I got over how nice they looked, things started to register...got curious and reached for the verniers.
An experienced Honda race bike engine builder would have notice even sooner than I did. Its not that we naturally distrust people, its rational to keep in mind that these parts are made by people and people make mistakes so everything has to be checked.

Turtle

01-03-2008, 03:01 PM

Bugger mate...hope you get it sorted and get that Beast built !!!

Big Lunt

02-03-2008, 07:07 AM

Anyone want an ashtray ?????:)

I will take one if you are giving them away:)

WET4URacing

02-03-2008, 08:51 PM

RIPPERTON

09-03-2008, 04:50 PM

I mocked the HRC cams in today to see how much deeper the valve pockets had to be and found that they didnt have to be any deeper. So I shimmed them and left them in there....then went for a ride !!!

L U N G S

what a sound and better pickup too but didnt get to 13g. Bit of a hole down low so got to ride it like a 125 now and keep it screamin. :mod_smilie_rockwoot

Marcus

09-03-2008, 08:14 PM

Thats a good effort!

I usually waste a lot of time scratching my ass and talking shit when working on bikes.

Turtle

09-03-2008, 08:33 PM

Thats a good effort!

I usually waste a lot of time scratching my ass and talking shit when working on bikes.

You should get that looked at Buddy, 'Combantrin' will get rid of those Worms.....

WET4URacing

19-03-2008, 06:01 PM

RIPPERTON

19-03-2008, 08:28 PM

used the stock sprockets unmodded. Will run it like that at Oran and see how it goes. HRC installation guide says standard bolt holes gives inlet 22/53, exhaust 52/23.
Irvine says retard inlet for more bottom.

WET4URacing

19-03-2008, 08:41 PM

Jungleboy

19-03-2008, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by RIPPERTON
used the stock sprockets unmodded. Will run it like that at Oran and see how it goes. HRC installation guide says standard bolt holes gives inlet 22/53, exhaust 52/23.
Irvine says retard inlet for more bottom.

its ian irving . and those no's mean nothing . 102 105 106 would mean something

22/53= 105.5
52/23=104.5

:D

RIPPERTON

20-03-2008, 07:50 AM

22/53= 105.5
52/23=104.5
:D

22+180+53=255
255 divided by 2=127.5
127.5 minus 22=105.5

Well if this has anything to do with overall valve timing it doesnt concern me at the moment because the installation was only to check piston to valve clearance which was over 1mm on both sides, which was why I left them in there.
overall timing and tuning comes later, even after the big pistons. You still need a degree wheel to check piston to vlave clearance.

jasonbw

20-03-2008, 11:55 AM

You still need a degree wheel to check piston to vlave clearance.

Can you use a bit of solder for that? Or am I getting mixed up?

RIPPERTON

20-03-2008, 12:35 PM

Can you use a bit of solder for that? Or am I getting mixed up?

Yeah thats what Irving said but A: fear that it could bend the stem and B: how do you get the solder in there without removing the head.
bugerise around threading it down the plug hole while looking down the port with the valve open to align the solder accross the center of the valve then turning the crank over ?? :confused1:
Might be easy on the inlet side but not on the exhaust.
Im going to rig up a dial gauge to run on the bucket with a special pointer that goes around the cam.

WET4URacing

21-03-2008, 07:45 AM

yes measuring with solder is the way real engine builders check piston to valve and piston to head clearances.yes you do have to remove the head to do so.
and jason real engine builders have the motor actually out of the bike on a stand.
ripper, still confused how you and your buddy jai got your figures without already having a pointer connected to a dial guage.

RIPPERTON

09-04-2008, 12:33 PM

At last the pistons have been ordered.
Set of 4 14.5:1 using the rings and clips I already have and the stock Honda pins shortened will cost $631 AU plus postage.
Ive also asked for a 3D model of the piston so I can check it out

Jungleboy

09-04-2008, 06:31 PM

ripper, still confused how you and your buddy jai got your figures without already having a pointer connected to a dial guage.

I was a decorated Mathlete back in my highschool days! :lmao: :lmao:

RIPPERTON

09-04-2008, 07:18 PM

Heres another HRC dealer in QLD
an ex Kanemoto machanic

http://www.k1racingmoto.com/old-site/index.html

WET4URacing

09-04-2008, 09:08 PM

yeh he's bin around for a bit here in OZ. asian dude.

RIPPERTON

22-04-2008, 09:28 PM

K the JE boys have sent me a 3D model of the piston crown, and it goes like this

jasonbw

22-04-2008, 09:29 PM

god I love cad... how good does that look!

RIPPERTON

22-04-2008, 09:35 PM

That last one is sposed to be wire frame.
I hade to dl a 20mb free program called eDrawings in which clients can view all kinds of models of things mainly for "ProE" files but there was this funny thing written on the page with the eula agreement.

RIPPERTON

30-04-2008, 09:03 PM

right, scored some HRC V stacks off FXtreme for $350 and will divulge the lengths of the tubes for anyRAT wishing to convert their stock stacks into HRC stacks. This will obviously require HRC cams and ECU i would imagine. After you shorten the tubes the will need to be glued into the airfilter box in situe at the right height

SLAC

30-04-2008, 09:11 PM

Might sound dumb, but what is the advantage velocity stacks?

RIPPERTON

30-04-2008, 09:33 PM

Might sound dumb, but what is the advantage velocity stacks?

Air plastics or the aerodynamics or the behavior of the way air enters the engine. the length of the stack tunes a sweetspot into the frequency of the inlet to a certain rev range. the longer the stack the lower in the rev range the sweetspot is.
When the inlet valve shuts the air that was rushing happily down the port doesnt just stop dead and wait for the valve to open again, it bounces back up the port and hits an air curtain that exists at the top of the stack. the air curtain is created by plenum (in the air box) swirl or air rushing to get to other cylinders. If air is rushing accross the opening of a stack it acts a bit like a wall and stops air rushing up the stack and bounces it back down the port toward the valve. the sweetspot happens when the inlet valve just happens to be opening again at the same time as the air is bouncing back down the port and starts to rush into the cylinder sort of preemptivley so you end up with better volumetric efficiency.
this bouncing doesnt just happen once but maybe hundreds of times every cycle, its more like a vibration.
the frequency of the vibration depends on the engine RPM and the sweetspot depends on the length ot volume of the stack.
Now dont ask me why the HRC stacks are massively different lengths.

RIPPERTON

30-04-2008, 09:40 PM

read under heading pressurisation for an explanation of variable resonance inlet manifold creating 2 sweetspots over the revrange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Length_Intake_Manifold

holdontight

30-04-2008, 10:21 PM

read under heading pressurisation for an explanation of variable resonance inlet manifold creating 2 sweetspots over the revrange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Length_Intake_Manifold

I think there talking about variable length runners that are all the same lenght but change from a long runner to a short runner. Like the YZF's use. As engine reves rise the intack path(runner) lifts to expose a shorter intake path.
This system is also used in the current ford 6 cil and give a broader torque curve. It dosn't lift it has a flap that changes its paht from a long one to a short one.

Kimbo

01-05-2008, 10:10 AM

The last of the HRC RC45 had a variable length velocity stacks to help with mid range power to try and keep up with the 916's etc out of the corners. The CPU handled the chores for this. I have Factory Pro short stacks on my 954.If you look in most airboxes , well honda anyway the middle 2 are usually longer to help flatten out the torque curve and also the outer ones [1 and 4] are close to the side of the airbox.The simple way to look at the dynamics of this without taking into account the exhaust is Long stacks more torque and short stacks for more top end

RIPPERTON

03-05-2008, 07:33 PM

TIME TO LEARN ABOUT COMBUSTION

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=wKYPN9DwhT8C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=COLLET+ANGLE&source=web&ots=ZT99t__Z3t&sig=VUq_VDd7augQolLVLL3QZWGdyTI&hl=en#PPA69,M1

holdontight

03-05-2008, 07:41 PM

TIME TO LEARN ABOUT COMBUSTION

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=wKYPN9DwhT8C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=COLLET+ANGLE&source=web&ots=ZT99t__Z3t&sig=VUq_VDd7augQolLVLL3QZWGdyTI&hl=en#PPA69,M1

Where do you find this stuff? Makes sences to. The smoother the combustun area the more chance of Keeping the air in motion and a better burn.

RIPPERTON

03-05-2008, 09:20 PM

Where do you find this stuff?
I find because I look

Most fascinating this was the difference in intake swirl direction between 2 and 4 valves.
2 valves is around the axis of the cyclinder wich means the spark plug should not be in the center of the head so the swirl is brushing past the plug as it fires.
But 4 valve has a tumble swirl whose axis is parallel to the camshaft so its ok to leave the plug in the centre of the head
(its not like it would fit anywhere else) but during spark the swirl, (if theres any left) is brushing past the plug so more of the mixture is exposed to the plug whilst its sparking.
So what I learned was big fat high comp pistons actually obstruct swirl so my bike may be a pig at low rpm. Hmm

WET4URacing

04-05-2008, 08:53 AM

and it wont keep pullling from 1/2 way down the straight. BIG comp isnt always what you think. TOO much and you will go backwards . didnt find that in a book we tested it at the track.

RIPPERTON

11-05-2008, 12:11 PM

Does This Look Slippery. from 7.4kg to 7kg. ground the balance shaft drive teeth off and rounded the leading edges and sharpened the trailing

RIPPERTON

11-05-2008, 03:19 PM

Hmm noticed a flaw in the oil system of the CBR and designed a mod which will supply cooler oil to the cams.

RIPPERTON

11-05-2008, 03:20 PM

2 Moar

SLAC

11-05-2008, 04:25 PM

now ripperton, i hope the hell you know what your doing there.. Nah just shit stirring, interesting to read and see how little cooling there is in a newish donk.
Q-- Do the Aus Superbike teams go to similar extents to get things spot on? Just curious to see what extent they go too as well.

zRoYz

11-05-2008, 04:47 PM

Ok have some questions because I like to know.
Have you had a cam failure due to insufficient lubrication?

I understand what you have done but as everything is setup with a specific flow rate which is probably why the cams are feed only through a limited gallery wont your mod starve other areas of oil flow (required flow rate). More oil pressure (larger oil pump) would compensate for added flow rate if needed but have no idea about what the engine design flow rates are which is why I ask.

RIPPERTON

11-05-2008, 06:08 PM

now ripperton, i hope the hell you know what your doing there..
Q-- Do the Aus Superbike teams go to similar extents to get things spot on? Just curious to see what extent they go too as well.

Yeah I know,
I had to spend an hour just thinking wether this mod was needed or not. In the end I was simply not impressed with the way the Japs were trying to get oil to the head, especially when there was a much better oil supply right there waiting to be tapped. After a life time of working on Jap stuff Im convinced they are brilliant engineers but this seems to be not up to their standard.
Damn I just measured the difference in length of tract that the oil has to flow from the cooler outlet to the head gasket.
Standard is 48.5cm and modded is 40.5cm
8cm shorter.....thats massive, that alone would result in a drop in oil temp at the head. Plus the modded route is further away from the crank and along the outside of the block.
I doubt theres any superbike engineer mad enough to figure this kind of stuff out but like royz asked No I havent had any cam siezures or any No5 main siezures but the problem wasnt that bad, This is just about feeding slightly cooler oil to the head and in racing that might result in a difference in the fatigue rate of a spring or collet or stem seal or valve.
Either way this mod is a better way to get oil to the head

RIPPERTON

11-05-2008, 06:45 PM

I understand what you have done but as everything is setup with a specific flow rate which is probably why the cams are feed only through a limited gallery wont your mod starve other areas of oil flow (required flow rate). More oil pressure (larger oil pump) would compensate for added flow rate if needed but have no idea about what the engine design flow rates are which is why I ask.

I think that at high rpm the oil pressure at the head gasket would be higher than standard but I dont think that it would be susceptible to leaking neither would the restrictor oriface in the head gasket be susceptible to bursting.

The pressure at No5 main would be higher cause theres no more leak off, it would now have the same pressure as the other mains.

correction: oil pressure at No5 main wouldnt change but flow going to it would drop slightly.

sumo

11-05-2008, 09:55 PM

RIPPERTON

12-05-2008, 07:53 PM

You might want to watch that you don't loose oil pressure.
Extra revs will spin the pump quicker and overload the pressure relief valve.
HRC offer a different sprocket for the pump which will keep the pump pressure the same, it runs a standard chain.
They also offer a higher rated pressure relief valve and you need to change the gearbox cassette retaining bolt behind the pump gear.

Hmm ive probly got more oil pressure, at least at idle cause Ive taken out the balance shaft and blocked its oil feed.
I imagine at over about 7000rpm the relief valve is open all the time .
In hindsight one thing I should have done before reaching for the power tools was calculate the cross sectional area of the small gallery coming from the main. I think it offers a restriction at least at higher rpm cause it is 3.5sqmm and the 3 holes in the head gasket make 5.3sqmm. That would limit the pressure and flow to the head gasket at higher rpm, so I should have used a smaller drill bit like 2.5mm for 4.9sqmm. Oh well better luck with next engine. :n:

RIPPERTON

16-05-2008, 09:41 PM

Long story short..got the new 14.2:1 pistons from JE but they turned out to be a 2 ring piston instead of 3 ring.
Superbikes use a 2 ring setup for lightness but I still want to use 3 ring for longer service interval, ie once I finally get this thing back together I want to keep it that way for at least 2 years.
So JE are making me a set of 3 ring and the 2 rings are effectivley JE property but they have asked me to see if I can sell them so RATers get first dibs at $600 and then they go on FXtreme for $700.
$600 is the price of just 1 HRC piston.
To order a set of custom pistons from JE now will cost you $1115AU landed.
These pistons are designed at 14.2:1 with an unmilled block and have standard valve pockets with 0.5 excessive piston to valve clearance. You could effectivley mill 0.5mm off the block and get some stoopid compression and still have proper valve clearances.
Each piston weighes 170 grams (10gr lighter than stock) and comes with rings, pins and clips.
I also have a set of 4 Denso Iridium surface plugs for high compression pistons for $250 to go with the JE's

RIPPERTON

16-05-2008, 09:44 PM

Denso RU01-31 are the cheaper equivilant to the handmade NGK R0045Q-10 plugs specked by HRC for both R1 and CBR1000RR

jasonbw

16-05-2008, 11:07 PM

Hey Ripperton, looks like you've done some homework, are you saying someone can just buy that kit and pop the pistons in, without modifying anything else? Cams? Oil Pump, all that gear? For $600 ! Pop it to our man Trev, drop in a PC2, air filter and system and bang for buck you got a decent HP CBR1KRR ! Is this the case or am I missing something?

RIPPERTON

17-05-2008, 12:04 AM

This is the case.
Im all for these pistons not like the Turbo ones I got off GayBay.
These are goers. You can ring Brian Weaver in Huntington Beach (001117148989763) and quote the number off the lug (666337) and hell give you some more background on them like what teams have used them in the states.
You would get big horse just putting the pistons in but you would probly want to get cams and ECU as well.
Like when I put the HRC cams into a basically stock motor, noticed a massive difference.
Just checked the ring and gaps (0.23mm,too small) and they will have to be gapped to your engine.
without milling the block you will still be able to use the stock spark plugs because the pistons have a pocket for plug clearance. but if you mill get the Denso's

Kimbo

19-05-2008, 09:41 PM

Been following this thread for a while.racing pistons use 2 comp rings and a oil scrapper for less friction than 3 comps and oil scrapper, not weight.I am all for experimenting but do you really think Honda would really under design an oil system. By opening up galleries you will lose oil pressure not raise it, volume will be up but pressure will go down.Obviously anybody buying these pistons would put them in a race motor not a road engine. Also what fuel are you looking at. Got to be high RON or the ignition will have to be retarded.

jasonbw

20-05-2008, 10:48 AM

Keep things constructive please, removed a few posts.

clarkey

20-05-2008, 12:10 PM

Jason for U.N.!!:ayyy:

WET4URacing

20-05-2008, 07:03 PM

bugger only if i didnt have to build engines all day i would have seen wat was removed.

sumo

20-05-2008, 09:44 PM

Went from 155 to 185 rwhp (now was 190), all that really happened was a shit load of suspension problems and a loss of corner speed because I'm trying to pull it up for the corner. Relying on is straight line speed. Can't get on the throttle as hard on the tyre edge as I used to? Tyres don't last as long as they used to.

Cams hrc, spring hrc, velocity stacks hrc, inijet igintion, hrc cases, bmc filters, slipper clutch, micron full system,oil pressure relief hrc, oil pump gear hrc.

RIPPERTON

20-05-2008, 10:50 PM

jasonbw

21-05-2008, 12:15 AM

Which cams Sumo? Did you go JSB for the Cams and ECU?

sumo

23-05-2008, 12:03 AM

Still riding the bike, ripperton. Why would I put the stock velocity stacks back in it? Works better with hrc ones power very lineal all the way thru the rev range, if I put the stock ones in I would suspect it would start to surge power back on around 9000rpm.

Jasonbw, can't remember cam designations but part numbers are, 14110-nl9-910 inlet.
14120-nl9-910 exhaust.
Ecu is a inijet, removes the standard honda ecu. Can do everything with it, shits all over hrc. Uses standard lume just order relative jumper lead to suit bike. Mine will fit about 30 different bikes with correct jumper lead. More adjustments and easier to use than hrc box.
http://www.esner.cz/en/ Soon to come out with traction control. Mine is full blown race version, you can get a road version aswell.

RIPPERTON

23-05-2008, 07:28 AM

Still riding the bike, ripperton. Why would I put the stock velocity stacks back in it?

Because I thought you said you had "a shit load of suspension problems and a loss of corner speed because I'm trying to pull it up for the corner. Relying on is straight line speed. Can't get on the throttle as hard on the tyre edge as I used to? Tyres don't last as long as they used to."

And now the same bike is "very lineal right through the rev range"
???????????????
:confused:

jasonbw

23-05-2008, 10:41 AM

Cheers Sumo, did you go the long or short stacks for interests sake? Thanks for the info on inijet, will check that out for sure! You got an A-tech on that beast?

sumo

24-05-2008, 06:17 PM

Running the longer ones. Built 2 motors side by side.
Mine long stacks, bmc filters micron full system.
Mates short stacks, modified stock air filters & akropovic full system.
Same day same dyno, 2 horse power difference between the two my mates of course.
Have only just put A tech in after putting in new valves, a lot more induction noise, havn't run on dyno yet to see if there is any difference.
Motor feels a lot stronger but that could just be the freshen up.

jasonbw

24-05-2008, 08:13 PM

Good info, thanks!

Who'd you get the A-tech off? I'm trying to PM Brad off the 1000rr site but he just doesnt respond to my PM's. Have found the A-tech site, thinking I could probably contact them direct, did you?

sumo

25-05-2008, 07:29 PM

Bought it off ebay usa, came from South Africa 2 models, road that accomadates fan and race suits fan removal.
About $190 aud landed from memory.

jasonbw

25-05-2008, 08:28 PM

Ahh yeah, saw them! Cheers.

Jungleboy

25-05-2008, 09:27 PM

Have only just put A tech in after putting in new valves, a lot more induction noise, havn't run on dyno yet to see if there is any difference.
Motor feels a lot stronger but that could just be the freshen up.

Ive got an A-tech on my bike and it definately makes a very noticable difference. stronger everywhere but you really notice the extra snap in the middle.. feels like 5-6 HP on the butt dyno :ayyy:

RIPPERTON

31-05-2008, 10:57 PM

full ceramic silicon nitride ball bearings
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
weigh less than half of steel bearings and cost around $100 a piece, dont require lubrication at all !!! but can still run in oil and wheel bearings would still need seals.
running surfaces are smoother for less friction and more geometrically precise

Hit a wall getting these things, local dealer (Vic) says I have to bulk order min 50 pieces per size ($$$$$). Im eventually going to try to fit 13 of these into the blade, 6 in box, 3 in rear wheel, 2 in front and 2 in steering. Overall about 1kg weight reduction.

RIPPERTON

31-05-2008, 10:59 PM

OH...btw have sold the JE's and ordered 2 sets of new improved models to take all 3 standard Honda rings at 14.5:1
woo hoo:drool: :drool: :drool:

RIPPERTON

17-06-2008, 01:16 PM

Pistons will go into the machine shop on Friday and will have them (2 sets) in 2-3 weeks from now.
Changes made were, raised all valve pockets 0.4mm, removed spark plug pocket and steepened the side bevel to match the chamber.
Plus added another comp ring groove to suit Honda rings
These changes raised the CR to over 15:1 so they had to lower the dome height from 3.05mm to 1.75mm to get 14.5:1.
So got max CR plus a low dome for good swirl
Design PLUS :mod_smilie_rockwoot :mod_smilie_rockwoot

holdontight

17-06-2008, 01:43 PM

Hay RIPPERTON you better get yourself to the gym or your not going to be able to hold onto that beast.

RIPPERTON

18-06-2008, 10:07 PM

Gym ? I think I be in the funny farm before long :eyecrazy:

RIPPERTON

11-07-2008, 08:39 PM

And here they are, 14.5:1 CR, 175gr, 1.78mm dome, all pockets 0.4mm up from stock. All 3 ring grooves are 0.9mm higher up the piston than stock and take stock CBR rings. Its amazing how little you have to raise the dome to get big increases in CR.
Its a wonder they got here at all. I asked JE to send them US airmail but cover the box so no JE logos could be seen to avoid them being knocked off. Sure as hell I pick them up from the post office today and logos everywhere, just lucky I guess. Theres 2 boxes of these things, second set is going for $1100 with pins clips AND !!! JE stickers.
Jai gets first dibs if he hasnt turned completely into a Yamaha man

Turtle

12-07-2008, 05:12 PM

FINALLY.......................did they get shipped via "Tree Sloth" Logistics ?

RIPPERTON

12-07-2008, 08:35 PM

It cost $65 and took a week to get here.
Stuff UPS !!! would have cost over $200

RIPPERTON

26-08-2008, 04:09 PM

It is the dawn of a new age of darkness...

A new evil never before seen by the eye of man...

Behold.......IT LIVES

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00032.jpg

OMG :eyecrazy: even at 5g its already rippin ma head off.
Its got a funny piston slappy noise but atm im puttin that down to the extra loosness of the JE's.
It still starts with my external MotoGP starter but a bit more difficult to do so.
So now to organize a track day to unleash the evil upon mankind.............SUCKERS HAHAHAHAHA :storm:

jasonbw

26-08-2008, 04:27 PM

You went to town with a drill on your subframe :D

How many litres does the tank hold?

Did you use OEM rings?

What brand front Guard is that.

Vinnie, theres a "Mind Fuck" for you in the background! Santa or Gnome?

Johnny

26-08-2008, 05:19 PM

You went to town with a drill on your subframe :D

How many litres does the tank hold? Which begs the ask, how much does she weigh all up, and are doing under 1.35s at the creek to warrant such mods rather than bettering yourself ?

Sorry, no offence meant, but a valid ask I think..

RIPPERTON

26-08-2008, 05:39 PM

You went to town with a drill on your subframe :D
Its what I do
How many litres does the tank hold?
9 liters enough for 2 sessions
Did you use OEM rings?
Yap pistons were designed for standard Honda rings
What brand front Guard is that.
stocker painted matt black
Vinnie, theres a "Mind Fuck" for you in the background! Santa or Gnome?
Did you say Satan ? oh crap

.

RIPPERTON

26-08-2008, 05:46 PM

Which begs the ask, how much does she weigh all up, and are doing under 1.35s at the creek to warrant such mods rather than bettering yourself ?

Sorry, no offence meant, but a valid ask I think..

Last weigh in was 150kg but just went back to steel cylinder head and main bolts cause the alloy ones were starting to fatigue, one snapped as I was putting the cases back together. Thats another 800 odd grams to deal with dammit.
really pissed about that but am getting quotes on Ti bolts.
Dont know what times ive been doing but dont really give a 5hit. Will find out soon cause just got a new Mini XT timer.

Johnny

26-08-2008, 05:49 PM

Last weigh in was 150kg .

That is impressive :eek:

jasonbw

26-08-2008, 05:57 PM

WOW !!! 150Kg ??? What was in it? No oil/water/fuel ? Battery ? Brake fluid??? thats incredible!!!! Yeah I agree that you don't need to do great laptimes to have fun with the engineering side of your bike...:D

150Kg, I can't get over that... damn !!! Next stop, lightweight rims ?? :D

Mind if I move this thread into the Technical section, not really suitable for the WANTED section anymore, its evolved! :)

zRoYz

26-08-2008, 06:32 PM

why do people bling there bikes johnny not to go any faster infact some of the most tricked bikes are only for show.

if I had some of the toys ripp has in his garage I think the wife & kids would never see me & you do it because you can.

Johnny

26-08-2008, 06:34 PM

True I guess, 150kg answers any questions I may of had too though :eek:

That thing is basically a 250 with BALLLLLLLLLLS :eek:

RIPPERTON

26-08-2008, 06:56 PM

WOW !!! 150Kg ??? What was in it? No oil/water/fuel ? Battery ? Brake fluid?
Wet with 1 liter of fuel, I rode it down to the factory that has the large packing scales.
Yeah I agree that you don't need to do great laptimes to have fun with the engineering side of your bike...:D
You got it right there, when you weigh 100kg you aint goin anywhere in a hurry. Im going to look for a professional rider who weighs 60 odd kg to do a few laps on it just to see what its capable of.
150Kg, I can't get over that... damn !!! Next stop, lightweight rims ?? :D
Already got BST carbon, next stop is ceramic composite front discs
Mind if I move this thread into the Technical section, not really suitable for the WANTED section anymore, its evolved! :)
yep go ahead
.

Turtle

26-08-2008, 07:16 PM

Wow....wheelies will be easy ..

jasonbw

26-08-2008, 07:59 PM

wheelies yes, drive without traction control?? oh man I can't wait to hear Rip exit T12 at EC on Sunday :D

jasonbw

26-08-2008, 10:17 PM

Ripperton, what kind of radiator is that, and where are all the fuses and electrics that exit the front left normally ?

Turtle

26-08-2008, 10:49 PM

wheelies yes, drive without traction control?? oh man I can't wait to hear Rip exit T12 at EC on Sunday :D

When will yours emerge ???? I have another week and Alex's should be done, would be this weekend but going to the Snow....

RIPPERTON

26-08-2008, 11:40 PM

Ripperton, what kind of radiator is that, and where are all the fuses and electrics that exit the front left normally ?

Stock rad modded so the hot hose runs inside the frame and also the oil cooler outlet goes into the hot side of the rad like the HRC rad not back into the engine like the roadies.
HRC wiring harness has no fuses plus my HRC harness has the charging circuit removed. 230gr lighter than "stock" HRC harness

jasonbw

27-08-2008, 12:17 AM

Ahhh okay... it got the radiator down nice and low... didnt realise your running the HRC harness.

Turtle, funny you say that, I just bolted her together tonight, new US 06/07 harness in, independent radiator thermo fan relay (since the new ECU doesnt have a fan controller) and a lot of fart arsing around to get the electrics the way I want them (accessories on a fuse with a connector)

Soon the new head will arrive then it'll be the fun bike I've been waiting for :D

Turtle

27-08-2008, 07:58 PM

RIPPERTON

29-08-2008, 11:16 AM

K heres some of the stuff Ive made for the Blade.
Axle set
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/CBR1000axleset.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/CBR1000CLUTCHPLATES.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/AlloyFueltankoutlet.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/FUELRAIL-1.jpg
Shift ratchet
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/GEARSHIFTINDEXROTOR.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/HANGERS.jpg
Clutch slave piston and pushrod, have 2 of these sets available, $80
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/HONDACLUTCH.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/OILPRESSURERELIEF.jpg
Front caliper pistons anodising
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/TUB.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/WATERPUMP.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/balanceshaftassembly.jpg
cam cover bolts
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/camcoverbolts.jpg
testing fuel pump mount for leaks
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/leaktesting.jpg

holdontight

29-08-2008, 04:13 PM

WOW. you are very comitted. or you need to be committed one of the to.

wade193

29-08-2008, 06:31 PM

Totally amazed :notworthy: I wish i could fabricate my own things like that.

Mozzie

29-08-2008, 06:45 PM

You certainly know your stuff mate I,m blown away with what you,ve made.

SLAC

29-08-2008, 09:37 PM

WOW..... When are you going to make a few trick parts for RATS.. Eg - Rearsets, Clipons, yeah do some clipons :clap:

RIPPERTON

30-08-2008, 05:07 PM

zRoYz

30-08-2008, 06:12 PM

Yo got my first taste of proper good wheel spin this arvo.
But cold tires and 1st gear and about 7g half throttle.
Sounds like clutch slipping but lots more noise.
Hmm now I know what to look out for hehe

No tea or breakfast before TD saving 2kgs, shave all body hair save 500gr :lmao:

Have you done things like triple clamps, fork axle bodies?

Very impressive & great you kept records you should have a work blog or even just a thread you can keep updated in tech section so all the info in one spot :ayyy:

dazzler

30-08-2008, 07:35 PM

man you better put some weight back into that thing ripperton otherwise, she will sprout wings and fly!!! well done:clap:

that is one helluva project you got there bud, i for one am impressed:dancesmiley:

RIPPERTON

31-08-2008, 10:14 PM

D O H :dohsmiley::dohsmiley::dohsmiley:
back to the drawing board.
The diesel type noise coming from the cylinder area was correctly diagnosed as piston slap, but this afternoon after one very lackluster session at the creek I dragged my beloved beast back to the lab and....yep pulled the engine out and apart yet again.
But did discover the reason for the piston slap and was relieved that it wasnt my fault.
The piston skirts are 1.9mm too short. That combined with the 0.05mm smaller diameter piston crown makes the pistons tilt in the bore about twice as much as the stockers.
This would also make the rings wear radiused and prematurely.
Man Brian Weaver is gonna be pissed when I ring on Tuesday morning.

RIPPERTON

04-09-2008, 09:35 PM

Stuffit i put the Honda pistons back in and Im going to enjoy summer on track and not in my garage.
The skirts have to be longer and may also need nicasil coating to bring the cylinders back to spec

Turtle

04-09-2008, 09:38 PM

No tea or breakfast before TD saving 2kgs, shave all body hair save 500gr :lmao:

Have you done things like triple clamps, fork axle bodies?

Very impressive & great you kept records you should have a work blog or even just a thread you can keep updated in tech section so all the info in one spot :ayyy:

What about the big morning after Turd ??? 300grams......

Turtle

04-09-2008, 09:39 PM

Geez Dan how much does the bike weigh ???

jasonbw

04-09-2008, 10:10 PM

If you put those Honda pistons back in you will at the least score the bore's alusil (or nikasil if you got it coated), I understand the skirt design IS the flaw !

Big Lunt

04-09-2008, 10:21 PM

Is this the longest thread on RATS as I swear it has been going for 6 months or feels like it anyhow!!!!!!

Naked Twin

05-09-2008, 10:20 PM

Just curios, I know Honda are not that great at building bikes (now that is cheap shot at honda owners :spank:)

The question is have these items been load tested? I think it is fair to say anyone that can make stands, model and make their own light fuel tank is adept at their stuff, but weight saving comes at a cost and quite often it is strength that is compromised.

I know from an engineering point of view that items placed under tensile stress have little capacity when simultaneously placed under shear load, those axles come to mind, hey just something to think about when pushing the boundaries

Nick

RIPPERTON

05-09-2008, 10:49 PM

If you put those Honda pistons back in you will at the least score the bore's alusil (or nikasil if you got it coated), I understand the skirt design IS the flaw !

hang on your saying theres a fault in the stock Honda piston skirt that causes scoring ?

usual suspect

05-09-2008, 11:01 PM

How did you go with the solicitors letter to Rove you drafted!!

jasonbw

06-09-2008, 12:25 AM

hang on your saying theres a fault in the stock Honda piston skirt that causes scoring ?

Yep, figuring since tuners all seem to know that your question might be sarcastic, but I have NO clue how to read you.

RIPPERTON

06-09-2008, 08:22 AM

Not being sarcastic.
My bores scored up for no apparent reason and id like to know if there IS actually a fault in the skirt.
Brian Weaver of JE pistons says factory Honda race engines all get nicasil coatings in place of the standard crap.
http://www.electrosil.com.au/default.htm in Vic can bore slightly and nicasil back to standard or to suit any piston (like my 14.5:1 JE's)

jasonbw

06-09-2008, 09:14 AM

OK, cool.

You're on the 1000rr.net site? Ask the builders there for details, but yes, the Honda design of their skirts is the reason why the bores score so bad. Yep alusil is thought to not be as good as nikasil (Honda went with Nikasil for the 08) but, if you put honda pistons into a bore done with nikasil you'll have the same scoring.
One of the UK builders sent me a photo of what to expect in a stock engine that had 2000mi, it looked horrendous! A US builder sent me a bore photo from a 6000mi engine, it was oval by 0.02 and looked like he used sand as part of his fuel mix! Both engines weren't extreme examples. If you're going to nikasil then go non OEM pistons (like your JE's) and you can choose whether to go OEM rings or their design.

Diel11 is the US tuners name and Timdog is the UK one, both are top guys running their own respected show who'll yak on all day about engine building.

Having said all that Paul Free believes its oil choice that stops the scoring, but both above tuners strongly disagree... I guess you can get opinions from any tuner, but bottom line is its 'normal' for scoring on the bores for the CBR1KRR.

RIPPERTON

06-09-2008, 09:26 AM

Yeah it looked like someone had thrown a handfull of sand in there. I thought it was the BMC air filters. Plus I had the standard pistons teflon coated and they still scored.

Johnny

06-09-2008, 08:29 PM

if I had some of the toys ripp has in his garage I think the wife & kids would never see me
After just seeing his garage and bike in the flesh, I can safely say, no pics will do either his bike nor how well he has garage set up with "toys", justice, not a chance !

I was left dumbstruck like a kid in a candy store with no money, fuck :eek:

Ripperton, ah fuck it, lost for words.. :drool: :clap: :clap:

RIPPERTON

12-09-2008, 05:09 PM

Damn JE pistons measure 0.05mm piston pin offset toward the inlet side

Thats not done !
its either zero offset or exhaust offset.
Electrosil will be boring and inserting aluminium sleeve and applying Nicasil to that and honing to suit the JE's that I had in there.
1000RR site has saved my blade.
The best thing about Diel11 is that he never shuts up.
Its good when experts are so talkative.

RIPPERTON

12-09-2008, 07:54 PM

This is the kind of stuff the seppos are puttin in the blade engines
Rod is unspecified material but this piston and rod weigh half as much as stock rod alone.
Piston on left is HRC

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/009.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/008.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/010.jpg

holdontight

12-09-2008, 09:02 PM

red X's all I see is red X's

RIPPERTON

12-09-2008, 10:41 PM

red X's all I see is red X's
Better ?

RIPPERTON

14-09-2008, 02:12 PM

Heres my secondary injectors squirting away. You cant appreciate the feeling of the resonance tickling your inner ears from the video. Was tempted to stick my head in the air box and pin it. LOL
Sounds nice on Dyno but still not putting out the figures Im expecting. More tweeking of cam timing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE7WJ5ZDhIw

RIPPERTON

15-09-2008, 11:50 PM

look what I just found, just up the road in Kellyville.
lithium iron phosphate battery cells. 4 off these will make a 12v total loss power system for the blade. No more lead acid shit that dies in 12 months.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electric-Bike-Bicycle-Scooter-LiFePO4-e-bike-cells_W0QQitemZ280274842272QQihZ018QQcategoryZ1661 83QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

SLAC

16-09-2008, 10:23 PM

still not putting out the figures Im expecting. More tweeking of cam timing.

And they would be?

RIPPERTON

16-09-2008, 10:50 PM

180 with standard pistons
210 with 14.5:1 pistons

Check out this Lithium Iron Phosphate battery.

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYBh4ec05c&feature=related

RIPPERTON

22-09-2008, 07:50 AM

Heh this is what Diel11 had to say about my crazy oil gallery mod.
http://www.nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3459&page=8

Originally Posted by diel11
This should work really good man. That is a problem you see with the high compression race engines. The cams get all nasty after a while, especially when using 0W Sylkolene oil. Usually a result of too much heat. We have fitted 4 row oil coolers to engines before to keep the head temp in check.

RIPPERTON

27-09-2008, 02:30 PM

Got it.
Twice as big as the old lead acid battery once I got all the shock proofing foam rubber on. Only 1.5kg for the LiFePo4 compared to the 2kg for the lead acid.
But a stagering 2 and a half times the amp hour rating. 4 Ah for the lead acid and 10 for the LiFePo4.
Already been for a ride and the dash volt meter hovered around 12.7v for the duration and when I got back and switch off, volts jumped back up to 13.4.
Seems about 1 minute charging for each minute riding. Fully charged is 13.60v but goes a s high as 14.40v during charging.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00070.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00071-1.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00072.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00073.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00074.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00075.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00076.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00077.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00078.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00079.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00080.jpg

wade193

27-09-2008, 04:46 PM

Pardon the ignorance, but what will that improve other than the weight saving? Is it a performance gain from having more amps?

RIPPERTON

27-09-2008, 07:08 PM

Pardon the ignorance, but what will that improve other than the weight saving? Is it a performance gain from having more amps?

Yeah basically. Having more consistent voltage supply means the FI will work better. LiFePO4 performs totally differently from lead acid. Its voltage doesnt ramp down as bad as lead acid does. It has a very shallow ramp down to 9v and then it drops straight down, but lead acid starts to decrease in voltage straight away and goes down to zero. If you take a LiFePO4 battery past 8.8v, you damage the cells. But my bike wont work at less than 11v I think. It runs but doesnt perform as well as 12.7. Fuel pressure drops and loose power.
Well I find out how well these new batteries really work on Monday. The cost seems feasible at $200 for the 4 cells, at least they perform and last longer than lead acid. Ive probly spent more on lead acid in the time Ive had the bike.

RIPPERTON

29-09-2008, 09:34 PM

Data is in
and its quite amazing. I did the first 4 out of 6 sessions without recharging and the battery voltage dropped to 12.3v during the 4th session. The four sessions totaled 71 minutes but during the 1 hour breaks the battery recuperated on average 0.1v.
start volts...................................end volts
engine off....runtime...run volts...engine off....charge time
13.49...........15min.....12.7.......13.15........ ....0
13.23...........17min.....12.6.......13.03........ ....0
13.15...........20min.....12.5.......12.97........ ....0
13.10...........20min.....12.3.......12.87........ ....55min
13.35...........17min.....12.7.......13.08........ ....53min
13.78...........rain

wade193

29-09-2008, 10:02 PM

Are the results what you were hoping for?
How did the bike go with the new pistons? Happy with everything?

RIPPERTON

29-09-2008, 10:17 PM

Are the results what you were hoping for?
How did the bike go with the new pistons? Happy with everything?

The results were what I expected but I had unreasonably high
expectation. These batteries are nothing short of amazing.

Bike has the standard pistons back in but compression is slightly higher than standard cause I skimmed the head and block.
Im revving it to the top of the redline cause the standard tacho is like the speedo, optimistic.
I really have no idea what revs im pulling but I never hit the limiter once all day.
Half way down the straight the speedo pegs out at 299kmh but revs still climb. 15/44 gearing

dazzler

29-09-2008, 10:33 PM

damn ripperton, that shit is getting more impressive by the day!!

do those batteries come in different sizes???
im sure the tiller would love one!

RIPPERTON

30-09-2008, 06:44 PM

Heres some words from the dealer about fire hazard.

Glad you were happy with the performance.
The cells are only new so they will probably gain a bit of performance once you cycle them a few times.

The BMI LiFePO4 cells you have are the safest batteries available. They will not/can not catch on fire. In fact if you put a cell in a fire it will help to smother the fire to put it out. LiFePO4 batteries are a very stable chemistry and are even safer than your old SLA battery. I have seen the tests from the USA where they test the safety of LiFePO4. I have seen the results of where they fire a gun at the cell. The bullet passes through and leaves a hole but the cell is in every other way intact and doesn't catch on fire. This is in start contrast to a Lithium Cobalt Oxide based battery which is very reactive and can catch on fire or explode if abused or impacted. This is the type of lithium ion battery used in mobile phone batteries, camcorders and many laptop computer batteries. These were the batteries which were recalled by Dell when a few caught on fire. Lithium Polymer batteries act in a similar fashion to cobalt oxide batteries and it would not be advisable to use these either on your bike unless you wanted a special effect of a big flame shooting out the back while you are tearing down the racetrack!
Due to the fire hazard of most lithium batteries they are prohibited to be carried or transported on passenger aircraft. My BMI LiFePO4 cells however are approved for carriage on passenger aircraft since are exempt under IATA regulations and meet the requirements of special provision of A45.

Regards,
Armin

RIPPERTON

30-09-2008, 06:58 PM

do those batteries come in different sizes???
im sure the tiller would love one!

They do come in smaller sizes but right now the "E" size is just about right. Its like a can of RedBull. 40mm dia 150mm long.
Im not sure you would fit these to a bike with an alternator. Its kind of overkill.
Although there are digitally controlled batteries for cars and they are pretty expensive. You would only spend that kind of money on a race bike to take advantage of the weight loss. And dont forget its not just the 500gr that you save on the battery, its the other 6kg you save by removing the alternator and starter and most of the wiring harness.

RIPPERTON

30-09-2008, 07:37 PM

The Darkness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEPAkPdWgCc

RIPPERTON

07-10-2008, 03:17 PM

A tentative announcement.
I seem to have rid my Blade of clutch grab.
I know Ive said this before but this time its gone.
The only thing I did was use Nulon 10/40w full synthetic engine oil from Mr Filter. Will continue testing and keep you posted. :confused1:

RIPPERTON

08-10-2008, 03:22 PM

Another test ride and bigger revs this time...no grab
Man finally know what its like to race start a blade.
Weird that it was just the oil

RIPPERTON

09-10-2008, 05:46 PM

Higher and higher
a 6000rpm race start from stand still will produce slight baulking, like about half the amount of baulking I used to get at 1500rpm.
But 6g is wheelie territory so this wednesday Im off to the WSID for a few serious runs and will be launching at 5000 rpm.

RIPPERTON

15-10-2008, 10:53 PM

Went Drag Racin....WOO was fun
The clutch went ok as long as I didnt go too high and try to get too serious right off the line. When the clutch didnt grab there were other things that caused slow starts. Lightness of front end and torquey cams and Crankshaft too light. The only vid I got was of a bad gabby start where I was trying too hard, was up against a Trumpy Speed Tripple and you can see how I caught him up and beat him by 0.3 sec and 32 kmh faster. But I had to wait ages before I could really open it. Best time was 10.9 and 229kmh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_B3y8hpsfc

zRoYz

15-10-2008, 11:46 PM

:ayyy: are you running the HRC ECU as I see you have no rev limiter.

RIPPERTON

16-10-2008, 12:02 AM

:ayyy: are you running the HRC ECU as I see you have no rev limiter.

Yes, if you listen closely I hit limiter at the end of 3rd in this run about 13500. I think the standard tacho's are out optimistic.

*Oggy*

16-10-2008, 09:08 AM

I was there when Glen Alerton was down there practicing his starts one Wednesday. His trick was to let out clutch at 2000 RPM when use power..

I tried it and it worked well on mu 05 Blade... Could do 10.539 @ 219.... You have +10 on my terminal speed so try this method and you'll get low 10's easily.

RIPPERTON

16-10-2008, 10:34 AM

Hmm....Less is More

Squirts

16-10-2008, 12:13 PM

Yes, if you listen closely I hit limiter at the end of 3rd in this run about 13500. I think the standard tacho's are out optimistic.

I read somewhere that the CBR tacho's a about 1,000rpm optimistic...

so when the tacho reads 13k your actually only doing 12k.... think the HRC stuff gives you a more accurate reading though.

Best thing to do is look at 1000rr.net and search for "HRC" there's tonnes of info from a respected mech/racer on there.... will seriously help you out dude!..:mod_smilie_rockwoot

RIPPERTON

17-10-2008, 06:05 PM

Fixed Tacho problem.
tried a mates CBR600 04 dash on my bike and it was plug and play. Even mounting bolt holes were the same except the lower one was taller so some cutting will take place.
the 600 tacho goes to 17000 and all the lights and speedo and thingos work. Plug is the same

RIPPERTON

04-11-2008, 06:29 PM

GADOONK...

That was the sound of another kilo hitting rips workshop floor.
While RULERs 07R1 has been spending the last 3 weeks at Rips home for busted bikes, it finally dawned on me that the smaller R1 radiator could fit on the Blade. Its fittings and mountings are similar but its 600gr lighter and takes about half liter less water and is also design to take oil cooler heat.
Mine runs a bit too cool so next time I have a few hundred in cash lying around, its switcho chango time.

RIPPERTON

16-03-2009, 01:31 PM

Guess what I just bought for $1250.
Cosworth Ti rods and 2mm over JE's with new rings and Berilium pin spacers

http://www.1000rr.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30049&d=1237150442

holdontight

16-03-2009, 02:35 PM

Are they for the blade or the R1? I though you had a set of Carrillo's in the blade.

RIPPERTON

16-03-2009, 02:46 PM

Are they for the blade or the R1? I though you had a set of Carrillo's in the blade.

Yep they are for the Blade,
Carrillo's are for sale. with a set of JE's 14:1 or a set of standards that are in there now

WET4URacing

16-03-2009, 02:51 PM

these are top shelf goodies for my 7rrr

holdontight

16-03-2009, 03:01 PM

Yep they are for the Blade,
Carrillo's are for sale. with a set of JE's 14:1 or a set of standards that are in there now

Why the change? Do these new pistons require less prep work or the same as the JE's as I remember you saying they requiered some type of coating on the bore's?

Marcus

16-03-2009, 05:36 PM

Most hondas run a nikasil coating- well atleast in the automotive side.

+2mm would probably mean rip wants more grunt with the overbore.

Rip, what will your cc be now. I could work it out but chances are you already know off the top of your head. That bike must owe you a fair bit now!

RIPPERTON

16-03-2009, 07:12 PM

The rods weight less than half of the Stockers or the Carrillos FTM.
So thats 632gr off the standing weight of the bike and aprox 80gr reciprocating mass off each cylinder not including the JE piston which is also lighter, just dont know how much.
But the rods also make a reduction of flywheel inertia of approx 316gr cause the bigends are lighter and they revolve not reciprocate, but that will be going back on as the CBR is getting the same crank treatment as the R1 only bigger and better.
The rods are 5mm longer so custom pistons are necesary and can only use a 2 ring because the gudgeon is higher and theres no more room for 3 rings.
I didnt necesarily want to go to 2mm over, its just that those particular pistons were 2 over and Im not spending another grand on standard 2 ring long rod pistons.
Regardless of which pistons I use I have to resleeve and going to a 77mm bore wont be that much more expensive. Im probly going to use a bare steel sleeve cause the Melbourne guys havnt had good success with nicasil alloy sleeves.
New displacement is 1052cc, up 5% which in itself doesnt offer much hp but the 14.5:1 CR will and the extra rpm and lightness will offer even more than that.

WET4URacing

16-03-2009, 07:23 PM

i've had great success with electrosil. they are as good as holland

Marcus

16-03-2009, 10:29 PM

Big Lunt

16-03-2009, 11:08 PM

Shit this thread is still going and going and going..........

RIPPERTON

17-03-2009, 09:19 AM

I have had good sucess with longer rods in cars. In particular a stroker engine which restored some of the RPM that was lost with the increase in stroke.

Im pretty sure you will notice a significant difference in the engine.

Your starting to get my attention! Out of interest are you testing it with the new piston/rod combo then doing the crank?

Nope the crank mod is more important than the Horsepower cause its slow in corners now with only 160hp. Its going to be even less turnable with more hp.

Marcus

17-03-2009, 09:55 AM

ok, so are you going to do the crank mod before the rods and pistons then?

Im not sure if the additional capacity is going to make a huge difference to tip in. Sure there maybe a small difference, similar to a gsxr600 and the gsxr750, there is a difference but its not going to be like a massive difference from a 600 to a 1000.

WET4URacing

17-03-2009, 09:58 AM

HRC flywheel and stator kit fixes most of the stopping in the corner.

sumo

18-03-2009, 09:18 PM

$5500 and only charges over 10000rpm good luck

WET4URacing

18-03-2009, 10:49 PM

$5500 and only charges over 10000rpm good luck

big fella you are wrong. it charges over 4k and works very well. no luck needed,

RIPPERTON

19-03-2009, 10:12 AM

Ti rods being shipped by Fedex, ETA 25th March
current location
Addison Texas.......... :mod_smilie_rockwoot
Memphis........... ??

Honolulu...........!!! :mod_smilie_rockwoot :mod_smilie_rockwoot

Alexandria !!! Theyre HERE

RIPPERTON

24-03-2009, 06:24 AM

Well after all that, they are not Titanium after all but still lighter than the Carrillo's by 15gr, 44 gr lighter than stock.
The Copper Berylium spacers are more copper than berylium and are pretty heavy at 7gr each so Im getting a guy at work to make up some out of 7075T6 at 2gr each so another 10gr off each piston.
get some pics as things progress.

WET4URacing

24-03-2009, 08:32 AM

oh no more neg feedback for someone. here we go agian boys n girls

SLAC

24-03-2009, 09:03 PM

Each to there own

RIPPERTON

02-04-2009, 06:33 PM

Kronos rods weight calcs were a bit off as I weighed it with shells.
They are actually 69gr lighter than stock and 40gr lighter than Carrillo's.
The alloy spacers turned out to be 2.25gr each against 7gr for the copper ones.
Now to have money for resleeving :(

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00088-1.jpg?t=1238657515

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00089-1.jpg?t=1238657530

RIPPERTON

14-07-2009, 07:32 PM

Back on the Honda trail and a very skinny crankshaft emerges from Rips Lathe.
Its off to the mill for further trimming of the counter weights.
Was 7.4kg now 6.2kg.
proposed weighting rings are 500gr each and have room for 6 of them !!!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00049.jpg?t=1247560072

RIPPERTON

16-07-2009, 06:13 PM

Its done...the CBR is getting a new alusil bores at 77mm.
The guys at Duncan & Foster have assured me that they can do an Alusil bore that wont screw up like Hondas and just as well cause its a lot lighter than steel sleeves and a lot cheaper at $440.
The diesel clacking I had with the last set of JE's was because of excessive Piston to bore clearance of 0.12mm instead of 0.06.
so with a bit of luck I might just have a quiet superbike engine in time for summer. :mod_smilie_rockwoot

RIPPERTON

18-07-2009, 08:58 AM

3D model of crank weight

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/CBRCRANKWEIGHT.jpg?t=1247867843

RIPPERTON

18-07-2009, 12:30 PM

The blade has just lost another 2kg

Ive dismantled the fuel pump assembly and figured out that most of it isnt necessary on a trackbike. Big plastic thing is a sound baffle. The pump and pressure reg will be thrown into another Kart tank like the one I fitted to the R1 and the 2 wires going to the electric pump will exit through the breather hose.

Aluminium fuel tank for sale, 9l $200 with mounting hardware.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00051-1.jpg?t=1247880300

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00052-1.jpg?t=1247880587

RIPPERTON

25-07-2009, 10:58 AM

heres the new fuel tank with wires coming out of the breather hose.
The pump assembly squeezes in through the hole like a model sailing ship into a bottle. Had to make an acetal elbow for the strainer.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00054-1.jpg?t=1248479838

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00055.jpg?t=1248479903

Big Lunt

25-07-2009, 11:29 AM

The man obsessed with making everything lighter.............

You find every possible avenue.....

WET4URacing

25-07-2009, 07:00 PM

but will it do a session

RIPPERTON

25-07-2009, 07:18 PM

5l
My other tank got me 2 sessions and it was 9l so Im using 4.5l per session.
Though Ive probly never had a full 20 minute session or rarely

SLAC

25-07-2009, 09:45 PM

but will it do a session

And is it a approved fuel cell?? eg - It looks like a water container

RIPPERTON

26-07-2009, 09:31 AM

And is it a approved fuel cell?? eg - It looks like a water container

It is a Kart tank but being from China you have to work on it for 3 hours before it becomes a fuel tank.
The cap doesnt seal because the rim comes down and hits the tank before the seal contacts its seat so it has to be turned so it is shorter.
The 5mm fuel fitting has to be removed and an 8mm fitting with M10 nut has to be turned up and put in its place.
The brass pick up in side on the end of a short hose has to be removed because it brass and weighs a tonne.

Hence my moto concerning Chinese products...
Made in China, Repaired in Australia.

RIPPERTON

28-07-2009, 08:48 PM

Ive heard up untill now that the CBR 04>06 has alusil bores (07 08 09 has nicasil) But the guys down at the engine shop are 99% sure it is fibre reinforced metal (FRM) where a special fibrous alloy is used to cast the block and then a special hone angle is used and then a special paste is lapped into the surface of the honed bore.
They noted the way the chips or swarf came out of the bores when boring that is was typically FRM and they have contacted Honda Melbourne for info about the bore spec and they promptly said " havnt got a clue " but they have contacted Honda Japan for the specs and we are waiting a reply.
In any case they engine guys are going to put the same cylinder finish spec on my 77mm bores as was standard when the bike rolled of the line.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC000601.jpg?t=1248773766

RIPPERTON

30-07-2009, 07:53 PM

6 crank weights ready to go on approx 580gr each
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00056.jpg?t=1248943847

Crank being milled at work
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00062-5.jpg?t=1248943917

50mm wide and 5.8kg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00063-5.jpg?t=1248943942

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00064-4.jpg?t=1248944010

RIPPERTON

02-08-2009, 11:38 AM

2 smaller diameter rings have to be made for No1 cyl cause of an oil gallery.
looking good so far
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00065-3.jpg?t=1249173240

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00066-4.jpg?t=1249173371

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00067-1.jpg?t=1249173393

RIPPERTON

28-08-2009, 08:40 PM

Its been a momentous day.
Ive blown up my first engine !!
Wasnt that big a blow, just dropped a valve in my CBR after running it for about 60 seconds after the rebuild.
I checked the valve timing about 10 times before sealing the cases together and finally got it fired up and its making a clacky valve train noise. Gave it a rev and pop, number 3 right hand inlet gets punched by its brand new JE superbike piston. Pulled the motor and found the inlet cam to be late by a tooth so must have jumped :cursing: :cursing:
Jai Jungle Boy has donated a valve so I can get this thing running this weekend.
Weighted crank and Kronos rods and JE pistons are doing fine and I will get to see how the rebore and hone will handle its chores.
Fark this is weird my first blown engine. Ive been rebuilding engines since I was 9 and the closest Ive come to blowing an engine was a severly worn set of rings in a YZ250 after a day in the sand dunes at Kurnell when I was 18.

:ninja:

jasonbw

28-08-2009, 09:00 PM

The valve hammered the piston and the piston/bore is still OK???? Fark me! Bad to hear that happened but you'll have it running soon enough.

RIPPERTON

28-08-2009, 09:26 PM

It dropped and bounced 4 or 5 times before I hit the kill switch. It was coming down off the rev and virtually idling when it happened. I pulled the valve out and put it in the lathe and spun it up, it was barely bent. You had to look real close to see the bend but it cant be used.
The piston has the imprint of the carbon on the valve. Its not really damaged.

RIPPERTON

29-08-2009, 03:45 PM

Shes runnin thanks to Jai
was making a strong sewing machine noise when it fired that went away as the pistons got hot so Il put that down to piston slap cause the JE's have no pin offset. wasnt game to hold it full for more than a second but feels dangerous already.
Now a cradle for the fuel tank and off to the track :mod_smilie_rockwoot

RIPPERTON

05-09-2009, 04:47 PM

bent crank, probly from welding
3 middle main bearings chewed out but all 4 big ends were ok.
Main bearing housings in the cases are hammered so may need new cases.
bores are a bit scuffed again but rods and pistons are doing good.
plugs are white so probly lean maybe due to bigger capacity so need major dyno work.
The crank felt good during the 2 sessions it did. First session I felt nervous but second session was bombing ppl into turns and getting on the gas real early just like the R1.
This could be a part out if it gets too expensive to fix. :crysmiley:

Terry Hay

05-09-2009, 05:24 PM

Unlucky Ripper
I was eager to hear how this thing was going to perform. I once had a crank straightened by Crankshaft Engineering in Brisbane. Perfect job. Hope you can salvage enough so the big girl lives again.
Terry

RIPPERTON

06-09-2009, 01:44 PM

Down but not out, to be resumed at a later date when Im a millionaire.
The worlds lightest CBR languishes in a dusty corner as I focus my attentions on the R1
8 cell A123 pac sitting down on the frame in zip ties.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00070-4.jpg?t=1252204634

one side of a main journal bronzed
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00071-4.jpg?t=1252204773

main bearing shell sockets are peined out to the shape of the shell. This means the cases are stuffed as they wont old the shell properly and will probly spin.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00072-3.jpg?t=1252204808

same ol scuffing after an hour. going for nicasil now $$$$

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00073-2.jpg?t=1252204917

2ndclasscitizen

06-09-2009, 02:03 PM

RIPPERTON

25-09-2009, 11:44 AM

A quick trip to Jai Alcorns CBR spares has netted a top condition set of cases and tranny plate and a crank with great journals which is getting checked for straightness. It will get a set of rings like the last one and hopefully remain straight. I weighed the stock crank with alt rotor and came to 8.6kg which is exactly what the modded (bent) crank with 6 rings weight in at.
The block is getting cast iron sleeves possibly to 77mm bore to use the WSB rods and JE pistons. The sleeves are 1.5mm wall and will leave 1mm of alloy between the bores which will be reinforced by the sleeve.
might get to ride this thing before winter :)

RIPPERTON

19-10-2009, 04:49 PM

Here we go, back on the Honda trail

Got steel ?

steel sleeves to 77mm $720

should last as long as a Victa lawnmower now

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00013.jpg?t=1255931203

WET4URacing

19-10-2009, 04:54 PM

wats with the pit marks in the sleeve

RIPPERTON

19-10-2009, 05:49 PM

yeah they look like pit marks but its just some dirt.

muzz

19-10-2009, 06:16 PM

your a keen man ripp ill give you that

holdontight

19-10-2009, 08:34 PM

Hay RIP how are you going to stop the crank bending when you weld your ring onto it?

RIPPERTON

19-10-2009, 09:31 PM

Hay RIP how are you going to stop the crank bending when you weld your ring onto it?

I could try cryogenic treatment or bolt on weights but Im sick of spending money on it. I just want to ride it a few more times and sell it.
I want out of the combustion game and start making electric bikes. Thats going to be even more expensive but more rewarding.

RIPPERTON

22-11-2009, 07:46 AM

This thing took a full day to make but thats what it takes to loose 80 grams.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00028-1.jpg?t=1258839889

WET4URacing

22-11-2009, 07:51 AM

U spent a day 4 80 grams and your using steel bolts???????????????????

Wattie

22-11-2009, 08:27 AM

how about cutting off those excess chain links... :D

RIPPERTON

22-11-2009, 08:41 AM

Yeah well I only have one good hand an theres blood drippin out of the other one.
OK so I replaced the steel bolts with ally ones I made 6 years ago.
took an hour and a half just to get the engraving right.
Still learning the ropes

RIPPERTON

28-11-2009, 06:01 PM

CBRs new A123 battery frame on the left
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ripperton_2008/DSC00030.jpg?t=1259394996

RIPPERTON

04-12-2009, 07:15 AM

.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1tfL8lon9k

RIPPERTON

11-12-2009, 04:13 PM

Latest weigh in

150kg

wet with a liter of fuel
and just got a freekin nose bleed after a few gears of full throttle

:hatter:

RIPPERTON

06-02-2010, 06:04 PM

Im putting this bike up for sale $14g as is in parts. needs crank and probly a set of 75mm bore cases
HRC WSB cams + springs, wiring harness, WSB ECU, Serial reader, trumpets, SHOWA rear shock, standard radiator with HRC mod
Arata full Ti system, Valved forks, 8 cell lithum battery or 4 cell BMI lithium battery, Rippy Bike Hoist, External MotoGP starter, Carillo Rods and 2 sets 14:1 JE pistons, Sigma slipper clutch, BST CARBON WHEELS 520 chain, alloy rear disc, braided front lines, kevlar clutch and rear brake lines. Brembo rear brake,
2 lightweight fuel tanks, new fuel pump.
PLUS 6 years worth of lightweight parts.
The WORLDS LIGHTEST CBR......... come and get it