What do we mean by 'good handling'?

[Captain]

To be honest I don't really get this story; I understand that there's much to 'good handling'; how fast a bike can go around a turn, how quick it can change direction, high speed stability etc, but I'm just surprised that the new sport bikes don't rate at the top of the list.


The world's best handling motorcycles aren't sportsbikes
By James Keen

In the 2008 RiDER Power survey, the bikes rated highest for handling and suspension aren't Japanese. Even more surprisingly, they're not even sportsbikes...
As Ben Miller writes in this month's RiDE magazine, "For motorcycle engineers on an island on the other side of the world, the latest RiDER Power survey must have made uncomfortable reading".
That's because in the handling category the top 5 places went to bikes from the UK, Austria, Germany and the US. The highest ranked Japanese bike (and sportsbike for that matter) was the Suzuki GSX-R750, placed sixth by supposedly sportsbike-mad British bikers.


1- Triumph Speed Four
"That engine isn’t perfect, it's a bit snatchy around town but, out in the open, it’s a dream. Alongside that handling and those brakes, you’re in for one hell of a ride on board the Speed Four. Incredibly capable and beautifully built, its distinctive looks are ideal for those who don’t want to go with the flow. And it sounds amazing..."
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/216881/triumphspeedfour.jpg

2- KTM 950 Supermoto
"With the KTM 950 Supermoto finally someone delivers on the supermoto promise, combining the agility, low-down woof and rugged can-do with mile-after-mile reliability, comfort and higher speeds of a top-quality road bike. It’s a big capacity V-twin bad boy that, finally, really can shake its tail at sportsbikes in the twisties..."
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/216881/ktm950supermoto.jpg

3- KTM 990 Super Duke
"If all of life were like a KTM Super Duke it would be a short, barely glimpsed blur of action-packed vignettes. There is surely nothing more frenetic on two-wheels than the KTM 990 Super Duke short of sticking a nitrous kit, a jet turbine and a flame-thrower into the frame of a fold-up bicycle..."
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/216881/ktm990superduke.jpg

4- Buell XB12X Ulysses
The Ulysses is an adventure touring incarnation of the XB12S lightning, kind of like a stumpy American answer to the BMW GS. Buell claim the Ulysses provides great handling on and off the tarmac. Clearly owners are impressed...
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/216881/buellulysses.jpg

5- BMW K1200S
"The BMW K1200S has Suzuki GSX-1300R Hayabusa rivalling power but comfort and practicality too. Some radical engineering and plenty of proven technology. The latest Japanese hyper motorcycles are edging again on power – but the BMW K1200S is never short of shove..."
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/216881/bmwk1200s.jpg


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/GBM2004/handling1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/GBM2004/handling2.jpg
(unfortunately we don't have the whole story, they want you to buy the manazine for that ... the buggers :cursing:)

I guess they look at it from a different perspective here, and it's certainly something to think about. But are they putting too much emphasis on high-speed stability, or the 'fun factor' ... or even bumpy road comfort perhaps?
Or do I have it all wrong?

[Johnny]

LOL... guess who payed more this time around ??


Good to see BMtroubleyou getting in on the action though... :lmao:

[jasonbw]

Fark, all that to answer one question; What do we mean by good handling?

I'll suggest an answer that Keith uses. Good handling = predictable traction. I.e. good handling is just the bikes ability to hold a predictable line.

[Kat00]

That's fairly speculative, surely.
What suits one doesn't necessarily suit another.
Me for instance, if I can get on the throttle reasonably aggressively and early, I'm happy.
Its stiff as a board in the rear but plenty of feel. The rear bounces all over the place on bumps but the front is planted big time and I'd have to be pushing bloody hard for it to wash out. The more I ride it the more confident I get on it and Ive got Zeno to thank for that.

If a good handling bike is defined mealy by its ability to hold a predictable line then I have got a beauty, If I'm on the throttle it holds a perfect line.

[jasonbw]

I'd agree to that line, you have a beauty if you can get on the throttle and the bike gives you a reward of stability which bring a nice consistent, predictable line.

[Marcus]

The best you have ridden is the best you know.

I have ridden some terrible bikes, really really bad and the owner told me its the best bike they have ever had or ridden on. Some boarder line on scary!

I cant really put it into one short description, but if I had to it would be along the lines of "easy to ride fast".

A predicatble line is a bit too generic. I think a half decent bike should hold a predicatble line but a GREAT handling bike will do a lot more then just that. A stock 07/8 R1 will hold a line, they are sort of OK with stock settings- nothing to write home about but can be vastly improved on. A stock 04 R1 holds a line well on the street with "sports" riding, but the front wants to tuck. That cant be classed as a good overall bike.

I rode zeno's bike the other day, even with an experimental rear spring it was still a fun bike to ride. One cool thing about it is, get on the gas, roll on hard, it holds a line then tightens up- but its not gyrating off a spinning rear tyre!

The pistons he uses in his forks are really neat! If anyone knows the bumps on epping road just near the lane cove road overpass they know how much it upsets their bike- even a car at the speed limit. I hit them at speed and the forks soaked them up- yet when I loaded up the front tyre or trail brake it did what I asked it to do. I wish I had some time on this bike on a familiar rd

Even though I am done spending money on my road bike, I have this urge to change from my ohlins comp and showa rebound pistons to his new 20mm pistons.

[Alex.]

good handling = predictable traction. I.e. Good handling is just the bikes ability to hold a predictable line.

cbr600rr / cbr1000rr

[Captain]

Hi Alex.
So, how's the new bike?

[ST Kurt]

I think we need to consider the agency conducting the tests and their target audience.

It’s the same argument can be applied to the BOTY tests world round, put simply it's Track Bike Vs Road Bike. What’s your bias?

What are the criteria? Who set’s the criteria and on what basis? Who am I pitching to?

If I was an Aussie magazine, I’d be biased on racing track oriented bikes.
If I was a Euro mag, it would be more of a road bias.
If I was an American mag, I’d be biased toward sports bikes that can hold the fattest rear wheel, carry bling and lowered to the ground.

This is an overly simplistic view, but you get my drift.

Then there’s the other argument of translating ‘feel’, from humans to paper… blah blah…

Show me an objective unbiased reporter or tester and I’ll show you a lair. J

[Alex.]

Hi Alex.
So, how's the new bike?

Only ridden it 3 times (once was in the wet at the last RATS ride) as i've been overseas. But it is awesome. Feels like my CBR6 but with heaps more power. Still to finish arranging all of the bits & pieces to be changed as i've got a few things on my mind at the moment.

[clarkey]

Only ridden it 3 times (once was in the wet at the last RATS ride) as i've been overseas. But it is awesome. Feels like my CBR6 but with heaps more power. Still to finish arranging all of the bits & pieces to be changed as i've got a few things on my mind at the moment.

Remove them and get on with it!!

[Captain]

Like this one. I gave up, because they didn't seem to generate much interest (dribble threads always do better).

Anyhow, there's plenty of stuff like this in the forum for the newer members (and the older ones) if you care to search a little.