Learner Legal GIX 600

[wudka]

Has anyone heard of buying a GSXR 600 and getting it restricted to be learner legal in sydney?

I just had a mate tell me that his mate bought a K8 ex demo, and had it restricted to be underpowered for his L's..

Cost him all up around the 13K mark...

Either way, seems an expensive way to get a bike, that would be less fun than say an RVF 400...

[Slippery]

Double RR motorcycles in Haberfield has gotten one through the RTA, its a PC mod and restricted throttle.

They hope to get the ok to restrict R1s & CBR's in the near future.

[squirrelgadget]

that would save a lot of hassel and money, plus you get to learn with the feel of a sports bikes real initial power. when going from a 250 to a 675 i found the difference in throttle sensitivity quite amazing, and would have prefered to have learnt on a restricted sports bike.

it would have saved me in buying a whole other bike too... not that buying a triumph has saved me any money whatsoever...

[WET4URacing]

sensitivity , mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[zenodamper]

Only be happening elsewhere for a longtime already; so yeah, about time here really... but, 33 hp Busa's are still a bit of a joke ;)

[Wiccad]

Hmm, I heard Double R had the rug pulled out from under them regarding this by the RTA. MCCofNSW is apparently helping them appeal it. RTA's excuse was something along the lines of it being too hard to identify the restricted bikes in traffic. Details are a bit sketchy, I'll see what I can rustle up.

[Kat00]

Good idea though.....It would let the new riders learn the steering and handling characteristics of these types of bikes. Imagine being able to do a CSS for instance on a restricted super sports when you were learning.......Can only be a good thing.

[Slippery]

Hmm, I heard Double R had the rug pulled out from under them regarding this by the RTA.

This is true... hence why they only got the one through

[hoffy]

What about ZX14's and Busa's ?? :)

[Dr freedom]

I dunno .. sounds good in theory, although the abuse of de-restricting it would be wide spread

[gazujc]

Hmm, I heard Double R had the rug pulled out from under them regarding this by the RTA. MCCofNSW is apparently helping them appeal it. RTA's excuse was something along the lines of it being too hard to identify the restricted bikes in traffic. Details are a bit sketchy, I'll see what I can rustle up.

Already spoken with the MCC about it and the bikes are identifiable when stopped as they were all fitted with an additional compliance plate that lists the modification and the serial numbers applied to the seals that perform the modifications. In short, if a seal as identified had a different serial number or was in fact broken the bike was considered tampered with and therefore no longer LAMS approved.

The basics of the mods undertaken are far better and more difficult to circumvent that the current LAMS bikes that utilise the 'restriction' method which can easily be removed. The system used by RR is one that is not so readily removed and is used widely and successfully overseas in numerous countries.

They (RR) had done everything correct and had been in full consultation with the RTA but ultimately it appears as though someone (read between lines) may have taken offence and as a result the RTA 'pulled the pin'.

The information above is courtesy of my contact at the MCC.




This is true... hence why they only got the one through

They had sold about 8 of these restricted motorcycles, all GSXR600's.






Garry

[gazujc]

I dunno .. sounds good in theory, although the abuse of de-restricting it would be wide spread


Sorry, missed this one in my earlier reply.

The method used (apologies as I am not technical) is totally different to that used for current LAMS bikes (ie, Hyosung, Ducati, Suzuki SV etc) asd it is not a 'mechanical' mod but a combination of mechanical and electronic modifications, all of which are well sealed and have individual serial numbers contained on a secondary compliance plate.

If any details differ the bike is unroadworthy and from what I have been advised if any of the areas had been tampered with it is obvious to the naked eye whereas the method used for current bikes is not obvious.






Garry

[spanky158]

This is a great idea, giving learners the chance to experience the handling of a bike that they will ride after a year of riding, also giving them a little more financial freedom. Hope the powers that be change their decision and this gets off the ground.

[HYPE]

this fella turned up to a ride-out a few weeks back.... regi label stated LAMS

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/3174639075_e420b9ea6e.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1247/3174639671_914d2bde6e.jpg


why wouldn't one simply install a PC and reroute the wiring to leave the appearance of standard unit and seals intact...?!

but let's face it... how often if ever would you expect to run into a cop that will stand on the side of the road and internally inspect a bike after reading the regi/comp plate which clearer states LAMS

[Mr.Ed]

this fella turned up to a ride-out a few weeks back.... regi label stated LAMS

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/3174639075_e420b9ea6e.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1247/3174639671_914d2bde6e.jpg


why wouldn't one simply install a PC and reroute the wiring to leave the appearance of standard unit and seals intact...?!

but let's face it... how often if ever would you expect to run into a cop that will stand on the side of the road and internally inspect a bike after reading the regi/comp plate which clearer states LAMS

This guy pretty much sums up what I think is wrong... How can the government issue me a bill for riding 5km/h above speed limit because it "dangerous" and let this kid ride around on sneakers??
Kinda beyond the point of the discussion here, but it shits me. It really does. The other day I saw this idiot riding a scooter (still a rider according to the police:rules:) up on Bondi Rd and he was wearing nothing but boardies and helmet (which was undone btw)! No shoes, no shirt, no gloves, no nothing... now let him crash at legal speed and we'll see what's more dangerous.

Ps: I'm a believer that every man should care for himself on matter like these. My rant is against the way the laws are made/applied really.

Back on the topic, it would be good to have a bike like that and be able to de-restrict it to use it on a track day. But then I might be asking for too much... again!

[Yarnie]

I wouldnt trust RR, they sell repairable ride offs as mint new condition bikes..


Already spoken with the MCC about it and the bikes are identifiable when stopped as they were all fitted with an additional compliance plate that lists the modification and the serial numbers applied to the seals that perform the modifications. In short, if a seal as identified had a different serial number or was in fact broken the bike was considered tampered with and therefore no longer LAMS approved.

The basics of the mods undertaken are far better and more difficult to circumvent that the current LAMS bikes that utilise the 'restriction' method which can easily be removed. The system used by RR is one that is not so readily removed and is used widely and successfully overseas in numerous countries.

They (RR) had done everything correct and had been in full consultation with the RTA but ultimately it appears as though someone (read between lines) may have taken offence and as a result the RTA 'pulled the pin'.

The information above is courtesy of my contact at the MCC.





They had sold about 8 of these restricted motorcycles, all GSXR600's.






Garry

[heretic]

seen a guy afew weeks back riding a brand new R6 with L plates on it.

[gazujc]

I wouldnt trust RR, they sell repairable ride offs as mint new condition bikes..


None of my information comes from RR but all of it comes from the MCC of NSW and has been verified by them so I do trust it.

And I dare suggest that RR would not be the only dealer or indeed individual who would sell a repairable write-off as a mint condition motorcycle (if indeed they do as claimed). Not having a go either mind but I have seen way to many 'wrecks' in dealers and have had to much experience with them to think that it doesn't happen (and not all dealers do this either and some that have done may surprise).





Garry

[spanky158]

This guy pretty much sums up what I think is wrong... How can the government issue me a bill for riding 5km/h above speed limit because it "dangerous" and let this kid ride around on sneakers??
Kinda beyond the point of the discussion here, but it shits me. It really does. The other day I saw this idiot riding a scooter (still a rider according to the police:rules:) up on Bondi Rd and he was wearing nothing but boardies and helmet (which was undone btw)! No shoes, no shirt, no gloves, no nothing... now let him crash at legal speed and we'll see what's more dangerous.

Ps: I'm a believer that every man should care for himself on matter like these. My rant is against the way the laws are made/applied really.

Back on the topic, it would be good to have a bike like that and be able to de-restrict it to use it on a track day. But then I might be asking for too much... again!

Man, I used to feel the same way, and then one day recently I said to myself, if he falls off, it ain't gonna affect me, why do I get so upset about it?

However I do agree with your sentiments re the laws around safety and your 5 k's over offence. If the law is for people to wear a seatbelt, then why is there no law re safety gear on a bike?

[gazujc]

If the law is for people to wear a seatbelt, then why is there no law re safety gear on a bike?

Was going to leave alone so that this thread didn't get to far off topic but the answer is that there are aspects to vehicle design that can be legislated, tested and enforced, but not all.

It is this reason why Helmets are compulsory by law in Australia for motorcycle riders. A helmet must meet certain legislated Australian standards before it can legally be sold for public road riding use within this country (thus the AS sticker). It is the same reason why non-AS approved helmets cannot be sold for the same use. Basically all helmets sold must meet the standards as legislated when tested in the Australian testing facilities.

Now, for racing purposes (this may include track days) the same rule does not apply as helmets can meet a variety or world recognised standards and there is no public road use involved.

So, how does this affect riding gear?

Easy, there are no Australian standards applied to riding gear (other than helmets) as there is no legislated minimum that must be achieved nor are there methods available (or recognised) in Australia that could set a minimum standard. Whilst facilities exist that may be able to test, without a standard there is no way to determine if a product meets the standards.

Taken a little further the situation is basically that you cannot legislate that someone should or must wear a piece of equipment when there is no standard set or legislated that determines or clarifies the minimum requirements of that equipment. On other words, if you have no test, nor a minimum, then there is no guarantee that it is safe for the use.

It is also the very reason why Motorcycle police are not regulated to wear leather as (and this is paraphrasing a bit) the Police had to wear leather and a rider suffered a broken arm as the reult of an accident, the police could be considered liable under workcover for failure to provide the adequate and appropriate safety equipment.

It is long winded and may seem like BS but it is the basics of hwat I have been told numerous times by people who would know and fight this in political areas on behalf of motorcycling.





Garry

[spanky158]

Was going to leave alone so that this thread didn't get to far off topic but the answer is that there are aspects to vehicle design that can be legislated, tested and enforced, but not all.

It is this reason why Helmets are compulsory by law in Australia for motorcycle riders. A helmet must meet certain legislated Australian standards before it can legally be sold for public road riding use within this country (thus the AS sticker). It is the same reason why non-AS approved helmets cannot be sold for the same use. Basically all helmets sold must meet the standards as legislated when tested in the Australian testing facilities.

Now, for racing purposes (this may include track days) the same rule does not apply as helmets can meet a variety or world recognised standards and there is no public road use involved.

So, how does this affect riding gear?

Easy, there are no Australian standards applied to riding gear (other than helmets) as there is no legislated minimum that must be achieved nor are there methods available (or recognised) in Australia that could set a minimum standard. Whilst facilities exist that may be able to test, without a standard there is no way to determine if a product meets the standards.

Taken a little further the situation is basically that you cannot legislate that someone should or must wear a piece of equipment when there is no standard set or legislated that determines or clarifies the minimum requirements of that equipment. On other words, if you have no test, nor a minimum, then there is no guarantee that it is safe for the use.

It is also the very reason why Motorcycle police are not regulated to wear leather as (and this is paraphrasing a bit) the Police had to wear leather and a rider suffered a broken arm as the reult of an accident, the police could be considered liable under workcover for failure to provide the adequate and appropriate safety equipment.

It is long winded and may seem like BS but it is the basics of hwat I have been told numerous times by people who would know and fight this in political areas on behalf of motorcycling.





Garry

Nah, doesn't sounds like bs mate, actually makes sense. Although I wonder why there hasn't been a standard developed for safety gear, at the very least jackets and gloves, when our governments seem to be pretty regulating on a lot of other things that sometimes don't seem worth it.

[KTM_Paul]

Man, I used to feel the same way, and then one day recently I said to myself, if he falls off, it ain't gonna affect me, why do I get so upset about it?

Checked out ya green slip prices lately? :cursing:
the more riders that get injured the more it costs the insurance companies, the more it costs the insurance companies the more it will cost US
(Yes I know Greenslips are for 3rd party but if the rider gets knocked off his scooter by someone else that persons greenslip will pay for his skin grafts!)

[1down5up]

i was behind this r1 today the bloke had a tshirt sand shoes and jeans on the chick had these skimpy shorts and a summer holter top on very loose fitting just about nothing i was loving the view till this car cut em off a bit every thing was ok but the next set of lights i had a word to em about riding gear told the chicky i would hate to see that lovely body all scarred up and they didnt know how much it can hurt and i did ( had to lay on my gut for a month from deep road rash if i moved it would crack and bleed again from a ill fitting jacket rolled up as i was sliding on my back at 110kmh) so buy good gear its a investment in healing time how much you wanna do a lot or a little as possable

[wharn-os]

Checked out ya green slip prices lately? :cursing:
the more riders that get injured the more it costs the insurance companies, the more it costs the insurance companies the more it will cost US
(Yes I know Greenslips are for 3rd party but if the rider gets knocked off his scooter by someone else that persons greenslip will pay for his skin grafts!)

Pfff...... insurance price hikes aren't because of claims.....

The very idea or Insurance companies being stock market listed, means by law the first vestage is to their shareholders and returning a profit.... not providing affordable or quality insurance (and health insurance especially)....

This is why originally, all insurance was provided by government....

[Mr.Ed]

:dohsmiley:
I'm sorry, I did hijack the thread after all! Didn't mean to though... And if anyone has any news on how to get an R6/Gixx learner legal let me know. PLEAAAASE!:hatter:

[xcabbi]

I heard that a K8 gix 6 when run in C mode give the bike a power to weight ration just above the LAMS bikes. Maybe suzuki AUS could provide LAMS capable computers which are locked in either a D mode or the factory C mode and having more baffles put in the muffler.

[Marcus]

Uk has been doing it for a while. I like the idea

[Dave75]

BIGLUNT told me a story about that. might be worth talking to him

[Big Lunt]

biglunt told me a story about that. Might be worth talking to him

you are a clown

[Cedric]

I for one am glad of my learning experiences on the trusty gpx250. I wouldn't have wanted a brand spankers zxixxer1rr for my first bike, due to my lack of riding capability and propensity to drop it/crash it. If you're careful with them, 250's have reasonable resale value anyway, and if you're not, you still aren't dropping $12K of hipo motorcycle.

[Lucas001]

I heard that a K8 gix 6 when run in C mode give the bike a power to weight ration just above the LAMS bikes. Maybe suzuki AUS could provide LAMS capable computers which are locked in either a D mode or the factory C mode and having more baffles put in the muffler.

The problem is if they are able to restrict, I will be able to DE restrict :ayyy: So does everybody... once you have the papers showing its LAWS how can they prove its not?

[Dave75]

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcardile
biglunt told me a story about that. Might be worth talking to him

you are a clown

Littlelunt...what do you mean by this pertaining, regarding???

[2ndclasscitizen]

The problem is if they are able to restrict, I will be able to DE restrict :ayyy: So does everybody... once you have the papers showing its LAWS how can they prove its not?

^ That's the biggest problem with LAMS. The bikes are worth more restrcited for learners, so what's the point in getting them destricted without doing the dodgy at home in the garage? The LAMS Gixxers you would want to keep for a while, and are worth something to people who aren't learners.

[Birdman45]

I disagree about it being a good thing, first up , as said, of course you're gonna de-restrict them, only a matter of days from buying one and we'll bein the same boat again, dikheads dying on over powered (for them) bikes..................... when I got my L's again (let bike lic lapse many years ago) and di the L's couse etc, the guy running it said this course was what saved bikes from being banned, coz that is what the govt wanted to do unless the road toll of fukwits could go down a tonne, so they started the program, which is a good thing and I rekon should be done for cars also. BUT, not just the "safe" side of things, 99% of the guys I know that have gone out and bought R1's or GSXR's or whatever, before riding a slower bike to it's limit, are slow as all fuk, never have the nuts to ride them hard, only doin burn outs and other try hard stupid crap, go for a ride and they are nowhere. BUT, the guys that started out on CBR250's, GPX's etc, and rode with other gus on bigger bikes, riding their arse off trying to keep up, once they got on to a bigger bike, everything seemed so much easier, bike was more stable, less nervous tipping in, had more power to make things happen when you wanted them to, not when the bike built up enough steam........ etc etc............ In my opinion, you'll be a way better rider after getting used to and caning a small bike for a while, than you will going out on to a ZX10 for the first time and being scared shitless of what it is capable of, OR not being scared and coming unstuck bigtime not knowing what it's capable of.

[Belinda]

I questioned this because my 2008 cbr600rr has LAMS stated on the rego label. It is certainly not restricted in anyway. I have argued with the guys at the local RTA and they say that my bike is a LAMS bike. Glitch in the system somewhere.......

The cc limit regardless of how much you restrict them is 660, so no Busa's with L plates. :dohsmiley:

[Slippery]

I questioned this because my 2008 cbr600rr has LAMS stated on the rego label. It is certainly not restricted in anyway. I have argued with the guys at the local RTA and they say that my bike is a LAMS bike. Glitch in the system somewhere.......

The cc limit regardless of how much you restrict them is 660, so no Busa's with L plates. :dohsmiley:

You may have a valuable CBR there....

[2ndclasscitizen]

The cc limit regardless of how much you restrict them is 660, so no Busa's with L plates. :dohsmiley:

In NSW maybe, I bet there's a few ACT learners who might be interested...

[Dr freedom]

Sorry, missed this one in my earlier reply.

The method used (apologies as I am not technical) is totally different to that used for current LAMS bikes (ie, Hyosung, Ducati, Suzuki SV etc) asd it is not a 'mechanical' mod but a combination of mechanical and electronic modifications, all of which are well sealed and have individual serial numbers contained on a secondary compliance plate.

If any details differ the bike is unroadworthy and from what I have been advised if any of the areas had been tampered with it is obvious to the naked eye whereas the method used for current bikes is not obvious.






Garry
oh ok .. it does sound more challenging than just changing needles in carbies or whatever, but at the end of the day, should a fully licenced person buy one from a learner, then the same de-restricting mods will be performed.
& you cant rely on the HWP to pick a modded (or de-restricted) in any case .. some call the front mount intercooler on my car the manifold..

Either way, imo its a waste of money buying a restricted gixer.. just wait till you can legally. Plus if they stack it, its going to cost some poor bugger learner a shit load more than if it were just some pussbox 250